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Thread: Freeze NUT




Freeze NUT
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2006-06-03 09:55:52
Ivan Kalvachev wrote:
> 2006/6/1, Michael Niedermayer <michaelnigmx.at>:
>> Hi
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 06:37:10PM +0300, Oded
Shimon wrote:
>> > I say go back to 4 byte method, and explicitly
say to the spec it
>> must be
>> > 4 bytes, and even remove the 'length'
field...
>>
>> i am not against a 32bit fixed field ...
> 
> I am against.
> 

I'm against too. Could we stick to strings please?

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/
~lu_zero

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Freeze NUT
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2006-06-03 10:05:25
Hi

On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 10:00:02AM +0300, Ivan Kalvachev
wrote:
> 2006/6/1, Michael Niedermayer <michaelnigmx.at>:
> >Hi
> >
> >On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 06:37:10PM +0300, Oded
Shimon wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 05:13:34PM +0200, Luca
Barbato wrote:
> >> > Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > some random ideas (dunno if good or
not)
> >> > > allow multiple codec identifers:
> >> > > source fourcc (what the source in
case of remuxing had)
> >> > > long name ("Vorbis",
"ITU H.264", ...)
> >> > > simplifed fourcc
(XVID,DIVX,FFMP4->M4V; ...)
> >> > > and make one of these mandatory and
put the other 2 in an info 
> >packet maybe
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > could be useful in certain case, how much
complex it could become?
> >>
> >> ... i don't like it
> >> I say go back to 4 byte method, and explicitly
say to the spec it must be
> >> 4 bytes, and even remove the 'length'
field...
> >
> >i am not against a 32bit fixed field ...
> 
> I am against.
> 
> If we are going to use 32bit fields. If we are going to
use this for
> compatibility.
> Then I say to use the AVI fourcc and don't mind to
make our own
> incompatible with everything fourcc table.
> 
> However I really would NOT like to criple nut in such
horribly ugly hackish 
> way.
> Especally when everything else in nut is variable
size...

well almost everything might be variable size but these
things also ensure
that values stay small if possible
(width/height/sample_rate/...) fit in
32bit for videos todays players support, (stream_id, ...)
must be a small
number, having a 2 stream file with 1 stream with id
1<<99 isnt allowed

now with fourcc/codec_id its different, its not that
>32bit can be used if
we run out of 32bit values while we wouldnt need to bother
today but that 
it must be supported no matter if we ever run out of 32bit
values ...

so there are several choices:
1. store as 32bit or store as variable length but limit to
32bit in the spec
    fits in int
    "only" 1<<32 codecs
    if the codec/source/destination stream doesnt support a
32bit id then 
        we must convert

2. store arbitrary length
    needs malloc()/free()/memcmp(), wont fit in int
    unlimited number of codecs
    if the codec/destination stream doesnt support variable
length id then 
        we must convert

there are further possibilities like storing both or
requireing the first 4
letters to uniquely identify the codec but these seem to be
silly somehow ...

theres no doubt that 2. is much more complex, so i vote for
1. if you
dissagree id like to hear _technical_ arguments (not
hackish, var size is
better then fixed philosophy with no explanation why this
applies here)


> 
> 
> P.S.
> Please don't try to change things in thread with name
"freeze".. its
> just the opposite.

start a new thread if you like ...

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint:
9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

In the past you could go to a library and read, borrow or
copy any book
Today you'd get arrested for mere telling someone where the
library is
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Freeze NUT
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2006-06-03 12:44:01
Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> so there are several choices:
> 1. store as 32bit or store as variable length but limit
to 32bit in the spec
>     fits in int
>     "only" 1<<32 codecs
>     if the codec/source/destination stream doesnt
support a 32bit id then 
>         we must convert

so

0x1 mp3
0x2 mpeg4
0x3 theora
0x4 vorbis
0x5 pick one as you wish

You'll have to convert, you need to have the codec table
handy when
manually inspecting a file, first come first served applies,
you need to
parse this information once at load so having simple int
compare or
multiple byte compare doesn't mean much. You may suggest to
keep the
code to the least number of bytes and within a certain limit
(8,16?).

"vorbis"
"theora"
"dirac"
"mp3"
"mpeg4"
"h264"

etc etc etc

looks too insane?

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/
~lu_zero

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Freeze NUT
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2006-06-03 13:08:43
Hi

On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 02:44:01PM +0200, Luca Barbato
wrote:
> Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > so there are several choices:
> > 1. store as 32bit or store as variable length but
limit to 32bit in the spec
> >     fits in int
> >     "only" 1<<32 codecs
> >     if the codec/source/destination stream doesnt
support a 32bit id then 
> >         we must convert
> 
> so
> 
> 0x1 mp3
> 0x2 mpeg4
> 0x3 theora
> 0x4 vorbis
> 0x5 pick one as you wish
> 
> You'll have to convert, you need to have the codec
table handy when

no, 32bit fourcc is used since ages and it didnt need such
mess until you
just invented it here to support your suggestion,

normal fourcc/32bit:
mp3  mp3
m4v  mpeg4
theo theora
vrbs vorbis
...


variable vs 32bit length is completely independant from
intentionally 
choosing silly codec names, the variable length system can
also be made 
to look bad by giving each a random number as name

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint:
9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

In the past you could go to a library and read, borrow or
copy any book
Today you'd get arrested for mere telling someone where the
library is
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Freeze NUT
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2006-06-04 11:27:55
2006/6/3, Michael Niedermayer <michaelnigmx.at>:
> Hi
>
> On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 02:44:01PM +0200, Luca Barbato
wrote:
> > Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > so there are several choices:
> > > 1. store as 32bit or store as variable length
but limit to 32bit in the spec
> > >     fits in int
> > >     "only" 1<<32 codecs
> > >     if the codec/source/destination stream
doesnt support a 32bit id then
> > >         we must convert
> >
> > so
> >
> > 0x1 mp3
> > 0x2 mpeg4
> > 0x3 theora
> > 0x4 vorbis
> > 0x5 pick one as you wish
> >
> > You'll have to convert, you need to have the
codec table handy when
>
> no, 32bit fourcc is used since ages and it didnt need
such mess until you
> just invented it here to support your suggestion,

Why is it mess? Why do you think that FourCharacterCodes are
better
than using 32bit integer?
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