a few newbie mac hardware questions

Please excuse if this are stupid questions, I don't know
nothing about mac
hardware. I did not expect this Q660 to be a blinding fast
machine, but I 
am a bit disapointed with the SCSI performance:

esp0 at obio0 addr 0: address 0x22a000: NCR53C96, 25MHz,
SCSI ID 7
scsibus0 at esp0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
[..]
sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DNES-309170W,
SA30> disk fixed
sd1: 8748 MB, 11474 cyl, 5 head, 312 sec, 512 bytes/sect x
17916240 sectors
sd1: async, 8-bit transfers, tagged queueing

Is the 8-bit transfers a limitation of this esp variant, or
the disk?
Finding another disk and replacing the internal one should
be easy, but if
it's not worth the effort, I'd just leave it alone.

intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
macfb0 at intvid0

The display is pretty colorfull in MacOS - is the
"monochrome" here intentional
(maybe for performance reasons)?

Also there is no sign of sound in the dmesg (obviously
nothing critical) - 
I suspect there are no docs available?

Ok, that's all for now - I'm painfully building the few
essential pkgs I
need now 

Thanks,

Martin
P.S.: for reference, or in case I forgot something, here is
the complete dmesg.

Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002,
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
    The NetBSD Foundation, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
    The Regents of the University of California.  All rights
reserved.

NetBSD 4.99.5 (MAC-BETH) #0: Sun Dec 10 11:56:46 CET 2006
	martinnight-porter.duskware.de:/usr/src/sys/arch/mac68k/com
pile/MAC-BETH
Apple Macintosh Centris 660AV  (68040)
cpu: delay factor 800
total memory = 45056 KB
avail memory = 40840 KB
timecounter: Timecounters tick every 16.666 msec
mrg: 'Quadra AV ROMs' ROM glue, tracing off, debug off,
silent traps
mainbus0 (root)
obio0 at mainbus0
esp0 at obio0 addr 0: address 0x22a000: NCR53C96, 25MHz,
SCSI ID 7
scsibus0 at esp0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
adb0 at obio0
intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
macfb0 at intvid0
wsdisplay0 at macfb0 (kbdmux ignored): console (std, vt100
emulation)
mc0 at obio0: address 08:00:07:46:74:0a
zsc0 at obio0 chip type 0 
zsc0 channel 0: d_speed   9600 DCD clk 0 CTS clk 0
zstty0 at zsc0 channel 0
zsc0 channel 1: d_speed   9600 DCD clk 0 CTS clk 0
zstty1 at zsc0 channel 1
nubus0 at mainbus0
fpu0 at mainbus0 (mc68040)
timecounter: Timecounter "clockinterrupt"
frequency 60 Hz quality 0
timecounter: Timecounter "VIA1 T2" frequency
783360 Hz quality 100
adb0 (direct, Cuda): 2 targets
aed0 at adb0 addr 0: ADB Event device
akbd0 at adb0 addr 2: keyboard II (ISO layout)
wskbd0 at akbd0 (mux ignored): console keyboard, using
wsdisplay0
ams0 at adb0 addr 3: 1-button, 100 dpi mouse
wsmouse0 at ams0 (mux ignored)
scsibus0: waiting 2 seconds for devices to settle...
sd0 at scsibus0 target 0 lun 0: <QUANTUM, LP240S
GM240S01X, 6.3> disk fixed
sd0: 234 MB, 1818 cyl, 4 head, 65 sec, 512 bytes/sect x
479350 sectors
sd0: async, 8-bit transfers
cd0 at scsibus0 target 3 lun 0: <SONY, CD-ROM CDU-8003A,
1.9a> cdrom removable
cd0: async, 8-bit transfers
sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DNES-309170W,
SA30> disk fixed
sd1: 8748 MB, 11474 cyl, 5 head, 312 sec, 512 bytes/sect x
17916240 sectors
sd1: async, 8-bit transfers, tagged queueing
boot device: sd1
root on sd1a dumps on sd1b

Hi,

On 12/10/06, Martin Husemann wrote:
> intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
> intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
> macfb0 at intvid0
>
> The display is pretty colorfull in MacOS - is the
"monochrome" here
> intentional
> (maybe for performance reasons)?

There is also a color X server on the contrib/ dir of the
NetBSD FTP.
IIRC it works with 8-bit color mode or maybe 16-bit mode.
Don't know
if it works on the Q660AV, though...

>
> Also there is no sign of sound in the dmesg (obviously
nothing critical) -
> I suspect there are no docs available?
>

There is console bell support for ASC-based machines and
also an old
patch for bell on EASC-based machines. However the Q660AV
appears to
use an audio interface called 'Singer', which according to
some
comments is similar to the 'awacs' used on macppc...


  --Marco

-------------------------------------------------
> Ok, that's all for now - I'm painfully building the few
essential pkgs I
> need now 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin
> P.S.: for reference, or in case I forgot something,
here is the complete
> dmesg.
>
> Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002,
2003, 2004, 2005,
> 2006
>     The NetBSD Foundation, Inc.  All rights reserved.
> Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
>     The Regents of the University of California.  All
rights reserved.
>
> NetBSD 4.99.5 (MAC-BETH) #0: Sun Dec 10 11:56:46 CET
2006
> 	martinnight-porter.duskware.de:/usr/src/sys/arch/mac68k/com
pile/MAC-BETH
> Apple Macintosh Centris 660AV  (68040)
> cpu: delay factor 800
> total memory = 45056 KB
> avail memory = 40840 KB
> timecounter: Timecounters tick every 16.666 msec
> mrg: 'Quadra AV ROMs' ROM glue, tracing off, debug off,
silent traps
> mainbus0 (root)
> obio0 at mainbus0
> esp0 at obio0 addr 0: address 0x22a000: NCR53C96,
25MHz, SCSI ID 7
> scsibus0 at esp0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
> adb0 at obio0
> intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
> intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
> macfb0 at intvid0
> wsdisplay0 at macfb0 (kbdmux ignored): console (std,
vt100 emulation)
> mc0 at obio0: address 08:00:07:46:74:0a
> zsc0 at obio0 chip type 0
> zsc0 channel 0: d_speed   9600 DCD clk 0 CTS clk 0
> zstty0 at zsc0 channel 0
> zsc0 channel 1: d_speed   9600 DCD clk 0 CTS clk 0
> zstty1 at zsc0 channel 1
> nubus0 at mainbus0
> fpu0 at mainbus0 (mc68040)
> timecounter: Timecounter "clockinterrupt"
frequency 60 Hz quality 0
> timecounter: Timecounter "VIA1 T2" frequency
783360 Hz quality 100
> adb0 (direct, Cuda): 2 targets
> aed0 at adb0 addr 0: ADB Event device
> akbd0 at adb0 addr 2: keyboard II (ISO layout)
> wskbd0 at akbd0 (mux ignored): console keyboard, using
wsdisplay0
> ams0 at adb0 addr 3: 1-button, 100 dpi mouse
> wsmouse0 at ams0 (mux ignored)
> scsibus0: waiting 2 seconds for devices to settle...
> sd0 at scsibus0 target 0 lun 0: <QUANTUM, LP240S
GM240S01X, 6.3> disk fixed
> sd0: 234 MB, 1818 cyl, 4 head, 65 sec, 512 bytes/sect x
479350 sectors
> sd0: async, 8-bit transfers
> cd0 at scsibus0 target 3 lun 0: <SONY, CD-ROM
CDU-8003A, 1.9a> cdrom
> removable
> cd0: async, 8-bit transfers
> sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DNES-309170W,
SA30> disk fixed
> sd1: 8748 MB, 11474 cyl, 5 head, 312 sec, 512
bytes/sect x 17916240 sector


-- 

     -Marco

Hi,

On 2006/12/10, at 21:26, Martin Husemann wrote:

>
> intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
> intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
> macfb0 at intvid0
>
> The display is pretty colorfull in MacOS - is the
"monochrome" here  
> intentional
> (maybe for performance reasons)?

My Centris 660AV which has same hardware as Quadra 660AV
actually,
just a quick booting test it with NetBSD-3.1, Centris 660AV
shows
65536 color on Macintosh 12" RGB Display (512 X 384).

Check "Booter/Options/Monitors..." again.


Is Quadra/Centris 660AV sensitive?
Centris 660AV does not work with my EIZO FlexScan E65T
display.
See "Did you know..." in the next page.
http://www.macintoshos.com/macintosh.museum/quad
ras.and.centris/ 
q660.html
I hope your display is not related in this case.

Good luck!
Kazu Inanaga

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Hash: SHA1

Hello,

On Dec 10, 2006, at 07:26, Martin Husemann wrote:

> Please excuse if this are stupid questions, I don't
know nothing about 
> mac
> hardware. I did not expect this Q660 to be a blinding
fast machine, 
> but I
> am a bit disapointed with the SCSI performance:
>
> esp0 at obio0 addr 0: address 0x22a000: NCR53C96,
25MHz, SCSI ID 7
> scsibus0 at esp0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
> [..]
> sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DNES-309170W,
SA30> disk fixed
> sd1: 8748 MB, 11474 cyl, 5 head, 312 sec, 512
bytes/sect x 17916240 
> sectors
> sd1: async, 8-bit transfers, tagged queueing
>
> Is the 8-bit transfers a limitation of this esp
variant, or the disk?

I don't know of any 68k-Mac with 16bit SCSI onboard and the
NCR53C96 is 
an 8bit part ( should sound kind of familiar to you ;) )
Besides that, there is no real DMA which doesn't exactly
help disk 
performance.

> Finding another disk and replacing the internal one
should be easy, 
> but if
> it's not worth the effort, I'd just leave it alone.

There's nothing wrong with the disk.

> intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
> intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
> macfb0 at intvid0
>
> The display is pretty colorfull in MacOS - is the
"monochrome" here 
> intentional
> (maybe for performance reasons)?

I think the loader lets you choose which video mode to use.

have fun
Michael
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On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 12:25:00AM +0900, Kazuyuki Inanaga
wrote:
> Check "Booter/Options/Monitors..." again.

Heh, didn't see that before - that fixed it:

intvid0 at obio0  50100600: CIVIC video subsystem
intvid0: 640 x 480, 65536 color
macfb0 at intvid0

Thanks!

Martin

On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 01:19:45PM -0500, Michael Lorenz
wrote:
> Besides that, there is no real DMA which doesn't
exactly help disk 
> performance.

Sigh, that sounds familiar 

I noticed that iwm/fd did not attach - should it?

Now I even got ttyZ0 working. One last thing I wonder: is
the second port
of the 8530 available anywhere?

Thanks for all the help!

Martin

Martin Husemann wrote:
>On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 01:19:45PM -0500, Michael Lorenz
wrote:
>> Besides that, there is no real DMA which doesn't
exactly help disk 
>> performance.

>Sigh, that sounds familiar 

I think that particular model does have DMA.

There is a PR (24883) that contains a modified version of
the driver for
AV machines.

Robert Swindells

On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 07:08:56PM +0000, Robert Swindells
wrote:
> There is a PR (24883) that contains a modified version
of the driver for
> AV machines.

Cool, I'll look at it.

Martin

At 19:54 Uhr +0100 10.12.2006, Martin Husemann wrote:
>I noticed that iwm/fd did not attach - should it?

No. We don't know the hardware, which is again different
from the non-AV
Quadras (which we don't know either, except for the Quadra
700). Way back,
somebody promised to get a data sheet from NEC, but never
followed through.

	hauke

--
"It's never straight up and down"     (DEVO)

At 13:26 Uhr +0100 10.12.2006, Martin Husemann wrote:
>Please excuse if this are stupid questions,

The answers are probably in the list archive, but that does
not make the
questions stupid.  ;)

>I did not expect this Q660 to be a blinding fast
machine, but I
>am a bit disapointed with the SCSI performance:
>
>esp0 at obio0 addr 0: address 0x22a000: NCR53C96, 25MHz,
SCSI ID 7
>scsibus0 at esp0: 8 targets, 8 luns per target
>[..]
>sd1 at scsibus0 target 4 lun 0: <IBM, DNES-309170W,
SA30> disk fixed
>sd1: 8748 MB, 11474 cyl, 5 head, 312 sec, 512 bytes/sect
x 17916240 sectors
>sd1: async, 8-bit transfers, tagged queueing
>
>Is the 8-bit transfers a limitation of this esp variant,
or the disk?

You mean the async transfer mode? The 8-bit transfers are a
hardware
limitation, obviously.

Michael R. Zucca worked on Quadra {660,840}AV SCSI DMA
support for some
time, and send-pr'ed the resulting code a few years back.
Unfortunately,
nobody knowledgable picked them up since. From what I've
read, running the
{660,840}AV SCSI cpu-driven is rather slower than the other
Quadras.

Apart from that, since AFAIK all the 68k Macs implement
standard 5 MHz SCSI
onboard, I am not sure sync mode can buy you much without
DMA support.

>intvid0 at obio0  50100800: CIVIC video subsystem
>intvid0: 640 x 480, monochrome
>macfb0 at intvid0
>
>The display is pretty colorfull in MacOS - is the
"monochrome" here
>intentional
>(maybe for performance reasons)?

You can tell the Booter to switch to a different
resolution/colour depth
before booting, since we have no way of switching
resolution/colour from
within NetBSD.

The NetBSD/mac68k X server is monochrome. There is an
inofficial X server
that can handle colour (8 bit greyscale recommended; I've
never tried
{hi,true} colour. Why this code, which exists since 1998 at
least, was
never folded into the tree, I don't know.

>Also there is no sign of sound in the dmesg (obviously
nothing critical) -
>I suspect there are no docs available?

There is a patch for better sound support on Quadras in
Gnats, but I don't
know if it applies to AV quadras. ISTR it is in suspended
mode, since Scott
didn't like it.

>Ok, that's all for now - I'm painfully building the few
essential pkgs I
>need now 

I feel your pain.  ;)

	hauke

--
"It's never straight up and down"     (DEVO)