Re: Documentation for graphics cards

At 16:37 Uhr +0200 30.8.2007, Julio M. Merino Vidal wrote:
>> If the Performa 630 or 475 have a socket for those
graphics cards
>> (I'll try to check later), they'd certainly be
useful.
>
>Here are some pictures of the 630's motherboard:
>
>     http://home
page.mac.com/schrier/q630.html
>
>I think the rectangular white socket (with three rows of
pins) in it
>is the nubus one.  If it is, then it's likely I'll be
able to plug
>and test those cards.  (Anyone knows for sure?)

The {Quadra,Performa} 630 has a PDS connector ('030 style
PDS, afair), and
a Communications slot (style II). No Nubus, and unlike the
610 no optional
riser card with Nubus bridge.

I remember I researched the issue for a friend back when the
630 was brand
new, and there was only a very limited selection of PDS
graphics cards
available.

I could set up a Nubus Mac with serial console for you to
test, if that
were of any help?

	hauke

--
"It's never straight up and down"     (DEVO)

On Aug 30, 2007, at 8:37 PM, Hauke Fath wrote:

> At 16:37 Uhr +0200 30.8.2007, Julio M. Merino Vidal
wrote:
>>> If the Performa 630 or 475 have a socket for
those graphics cards
>>> (I'll try to check later), they'd certainly be
useful.
>>
>> Here are some pictures of the 630's motherboard:
>>
>>     http://home
page.mac.com/schrier/q630.html
>>
>> I think the rectangular white socket (with three
rows of pins) in it
>> is the nubus one.  If it is, then it's likely I'll
be able to plug
>> and test those cards.  (Anyone knows for sure?)
>
> The {Quadra,Performa} 630 has a PDS connector ('030
style PDS,  
> afair), and
> a Communications slot (style II). No Nubus, and unlike
the 610 no  
> optional
> riser card with Nubus bridge.

Oh :(  Then, out of curiosity, why the NetBSD kernel
attaches a nubus0?

> I remember I researched the issue for a friend back
when the 630  
> was brand
> new, and there was only a very limited selection of PDS
graphics cards
> available.
>
> I could set up a Nubus Mac with serial console for you
to test, if  
> that
> were of any help?

I don't think so.  I need to be able to see the physical
screen and  
to reboot the machine when it hangs.  But please try the
kernel I  
posted yesterday if you can!

Thanks,

-- 
Julio M. Merino Vidal <jmmv84gmail.com>

At 21:15 Uhr +0000 30.8.2007, Andrew Ball wrote:
>  HF> The {Quadra,Performa} 630 has a PDS connector
('030 style PDS,
>
>Am I right in thinking that the LC and LCII have a
16-bit PDS

Yes...

> and the
>LCIII and LC475 have a 32-bit PDS?

...and yes. The '030 PDS is backward compatible, that is it
can take an LC
PDS card.

>  Is the 630 PDS different from both of these?

No, it has the '030 PDS, the VG connector that you can see
on the pictures
at http://hom
epage.mac.com/schrier/q630.html. The *630 was a
consumer
machine, and there were a lot more extension cards available
for the LC and
LC III PDSes, than for the '040 PDSes present in the Nubus
equipped
Quadras.

	hauke


--
"It's never straight up and down"     (DEVO)

At 10:10 Uhr +0200 31.8.2007, Julio M. Merino Vidal wrote:
>> The {Quadra,Performa} 630 has a PDS connector ('030
style PDS,
>> afair), and
>> a Communications slot (style II). No Nubus, and
unlike the 610 no
>> optional riser card with Nubus bridge.
>
>Oh :(  Then, out of curiosity, why the NetBSD kernel
attaches a nubus0?

Well, what is Nubus? It's a set of conventions for a memory
layout - a
number of slots, and 16 MBytes per slot, neglecting 24 bit
mode and slot
superspace for now - and on how to find and use a card
configuration ROM in
each slot.

Note that so far I didn't mention the word
"hardware".

You cannot "probe" the Nubus itself, because there
are no registers to
configure (the Quadra Nubus controllers have one or two, but
we don't use
them for anything). We just assume it's there. You can scan
the Nubus slots
for devices, though - that's what the code in
arch/mac68k/nubus/nubus.c
does.

The first Nubus equipped Macs - The II, the IIx, the IIcx -
had video on
Nubus cards. When Apple came up with the IIci that had
onboard video, they
found it easiest to use existing interfaces and conventions,
and mapped the
onboard video into a "pseudo slot". Apple
recommended the same practice for
PDS cards in Nubus-less Macs like the SE/30 for more uniform
driver
software. I'd guess that when you plug an Ethernet card into
your Quadra
630's PDS, it will show up as Nubus card, simply because it
has a proper
declaration ROM in the proper place.

On Nubus video cards... I just found that my last Mac
without onboard
("intvid") video, a IIcx, has silently died.
Unfortunately, the mac68k
kernel does not ignore an inactive onboard video controller,
as it should -
the Booter probably ought to communicate the fact. Right
now, when I try to
boot a Quadra 700 to Nubus video, it hangs when probing
intvid, and never
gets to the Nubus video.

Could you configure a test kernel with only Nubus video,
please?

	hauke

--
"It's never straight up and down"     (DEVO)

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Andrew Ball wrote:

>
> Hello Hauke,
>
>  HF> ...and yes. The '030 PDS is backward
compatible, that is it can
>    > take an LC PDS card.
>
> That's useful to know.  I plan to scrap an LC next
week, but if anyone
> here can make use of its 10baseT card, I will save it
for them.

 	If that would fit an SE/30 I would love to give it a
home.
 	Shipping might cost a bit from the US to the UK tho :/


-- 
 		David/absolute       -- www.NetBSD.org: No hype required
--