ntpdate hangs on 4.99.33

My beige G3 macppc machine hangs solidly in ntpdate after
upgrading to 4.99.33.

If I disable ntpdate in /etc/rc.conf, it boot completely to
multi-user. If I run ntpdate either by setting ntpdate=yes
in
/etc/rc.conf or just by calling it manually, the machine
hangs and
does not seem to answer to neither the keyboard or the
network. This
also happens after I rebuilt the system at 4.99.33.

Any explanations ?

regards
- Erik

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Hello,

On Oct 14, 2007, at 15:14, Erik Bertelsen wrote:

> My beige G3 macppc machine hangs solidly in ntpdate
after upgrading  
> to 4.99.33.
>
> If I disable ntpdate in /etc/rc.conf, it boot
completely to
> multi-user. If I run ntpdate either by setting
ntpdate=yes in
> /etc/rc.conf or just by calling it manually, the
machine hangs and
> does not seem to answer to neither the keyboard or the
network. This
> also happens after I rebuilt the system at 4.99.33.
>
> Any explanations ?

Hmm, I don't see that on my G4. Do you use HEAD or
ppcoea-renovation?  
And what's in your kernel config?

have fun
Michael
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2007/10/14, Michael <macallan1888gmail.com>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello,
>
> On Oct 14, 2007, at 15:14, Erik Bertelsen wrote:
>
> > My beige G3 macppc machine hangs solidly in
ntpdate after upgrading
> > to 4.99.33.
> >
> > If I disable ntpdate in /etc/rc.conf, it boot
completely to
> > multi-user. If I run ntpdate either by setting
ntpdate=yes in
> > /etc/rc.conf or just by calling it manually, the
machine hangs and
> > does not seem to answer to neither the keyboard or
the network. This
> > also happens after I rebuilt the system at
4.99.33.
> >
> > Any explanations ?
>
> Hmm, I don't see that on my G4. Do you use HEAD or
ppcoea-renovation?
> And what's in your kernel config?
>
> have fun
> Michael
>

This is on HEAD, and I only see it on the beige G3, I have a
G4 that
has no problem in this area. Kernel configuration file is
attached.

- Erik

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Hello,

On Oct 15, 2007, at 14:36, Paul Goyette wrote:

> This is interesting!
>
> I had a similar problem with ntpd (NOT ntpdate) when I
moved from  
> 4.99.29 to 4.99.31, but only when ntpd was invoked
during startup;   
> it would successfully start up later on, but
consistently hangs if  
> I executed it during normal startup.

All my machines, including the beige G3, run ntpd - I've
never seen  
any troubles there. And they all run fairly recent kernels.
The G3  
also does ntpdate on startup since the battery's having bad
contact  
sometimes.

have fun
Michael
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2007/10/15, Michael <macallan1888gmail.com>:

> To narrow it down a little more - does it hang when
actually setting
> the real time clock or does ntpdate -q
time.whatever.com trigger it
> as well? Without running ntpdate - do you see any other
ADB-related
> weirdnesses? Does the keyboard work right?


ntpdate -q seems to work:

ntpdate -q ntp2.tele.dk
server 193.162.145.130, stratum 1, offset -5.871349, delay
0.03467
15 Oct 19:56:32 ntpdate[357]: step time server
193.162.145.130 offset
-5.871349 sec


And the ADB keyboard (which I normally only use to reset the
machine)
does act funny: it seems to be locked in CAPS LOCK state.

Normally I access the machine via a KVM switch with USB
connection to
the keyboard and mouse.

- Erik

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Hello,

On Oct 15, 2007, at 13:02, Erik Bertelsen wrote:

> 2007/10/14, Michael <macallan1888gmail.com>:

>> Hello,
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2007, at 15:14, Erik Bertelsen wrote:
>>
>>> My beige G3 macppc machine hangs solidly in
ntpdate after upgrading
>>> to 4.99.33.
>>>
>>> If I disable ntpdate in /etc/rc.conf, it boot
completely to
>>> multi-user. If I run ntpdate either by setting
ntpdate=yes in
>>> /etc/rc.conf or just by calling it manually,
the machine hangs and
>>> does not seem to answer to neither the keyboard
or the network. This
>>> also happens after I rebuilt the system at
4.99.33.
>>>
>>> Any explanations ?
>>
>> Hmm, I don't see that on my G4. Do you use HEAD or
ppcoea-renovation?
>> And what's in your kernel config?
>>
>> have fun
>> Michael
>>
>
> This is on HEAD, and I only see it on the beige G3, I
have a G4 that
> has no problem in this area. Kernel configuration file
is attached.

Hmm, they use different ways to access the real time clock -
the G3  
has a CUDA like all the older PowerMacs while the G4 uses a
PMU.  
First I thought my cuda driver might be the culprit but you
use the  
old ADB stuff.
To narrow it down a little more - does it hang when actually
setting  
the real time clock or does ntpdate -q time.whatever.com
trigger it  
as well? Without running ntpdate - do you see any other
ADB-related  
weirdnesses? Does the keyboard work right?
Time to boot my G3 I guess.

have fun
Michael
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On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:36:05 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Goyette <paulwhooppee.com> wrote:

> This is interesting!
> 
> I had a similar problem with ntpd (NOT ntpdate) when I
moved from
> 4.99.29 to 4.99.31, but only when ntpd was invoked
during startup;
> it would successfully start up later on, but
consistently hangs if I
> executed it during normal startup.
> 

I have such problems (i386) if I type anything in single
user mode and
then go multi-user...



		--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbi
a.edu/~smb

On Mon, Oct 15, 2007 at 11:36:05AM -0700, Paul Goyette
wrote:
> I had a similar problem with ntpd (NOT ntpdate) when I
moved from 
> 4.99.29 to 4.99.31, but only when ntpd was invoked
during startup

Me too, but not everytime - maybe dependend on the initial
time offset or
something. I played around in ddb a bit and it looked like a
turnstile
deadlock to me, but I did not have time to investigate and
just rebooted from
ddb.

Martin

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Hello,

On Oct 15, 2007, at 16:01, Erik Bertelsen wrote:

> 2007/10/15, Michael <macallan1888gmail.com>:
>
>> To narrow it down a little more - does it hang when
actually setting
>> the real time clock or does ntpdate -q
time.whatever.com trigger it
>> as well? Without running ntpdate - do you see any
other ADB-related
>> weirdnesses? Does the keyboard work right?
>
>
> ntpdate -q seems to work:
>
> ntpdate -q ntp2.tele.dk
> server 193.162.145.130, stratum 1, offset -5.871349,
delay 0.03467
> 15 Oct 19:56:32 ntpdate[357]: step time server
193.162.145.130 offset
> -5.871349 sec

Can you reproduce the hang by setting the real time clock
using  
something else than ntpdate?

> And the ADB keyboard (which I normally only use to
reset the machine)
> does act funny: it seems to be locked in CAPS LOCK
state.

Hit caps lock a few times, I've seen that on my G3 as well.
That's a  
bug in the akbd driver's state machine - CUDA apparently
sends a caps  
lock up event as first thing after we probe the ADB bus
which the  
keyboard driver misinterprets as caps lock on. Things like
that  
prompted me to write the new ADB subsystem, as a side effect
you'd  
also get working audio on that kind of hardware.

What I'm getting at is - if you get the hangup setting the
time by  
hand too and ADB device behave weirdly then maybe there's
something  
wrong with CUDA or rather the way we talk to it.

On the other hand, if others get similar effects on i386
then it's  
probably something completely different.

have fun
Michael
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2007/10/16, Michael <macallan1888gmail.com>:

>
> Can you reproduce the hang by setting the real time
clock using
> something else than ntpdate?

Yups: issuing just the command

    date 200710160710

also makes it hang solidly.

>
> > And the ADB keyboard (which I normally only use to
reset the machine)
> > does act funny: it seems to be locked in CAPS LOCK
state.
>
> Hit caps lock a few times, I've seen that on my G3 as
well. That's a
> bug in the akbd driver's state machine - CUDA
apparently sends a caps
> lock up event as first thing after we probe the ADB bus
which the
> keyboard driver misinterprets as caps lock on. Things
like that
> prompted me to write the new ADB subsystem, as a side
effect you'd
> also get working audio on that kind of hardware.

Actually I did hit caps lock several times, but it stayed in
caps lock state,
however this is a minor issue for me right now.

Anyway it seems that you got closer to the problem by
removing the focus
from ntp(date) and to just setting the real time clock.

- Erik