Re: An informal survey... round II

On 8/30/07, John Curran <jcurranmail.com> wrote:
> I.E.  If at some time unknown around 2010, ISP's stop
receiving
> new allocations from their RIR, and instead use of many
smaller
> "recycled" IPv4 address blocks, we could be
looking at a 10x to
> 20x increase in routes per month for the same customer
growth.

John,

Why should we announce tiny recycled blocks? If there is a
/16 in the
swamp in which half the space is free but its all /24's, why
wouldn't
wouldn't we allocate all the free /24's to a single entity
and
instruct the entity to announce it as a "holey"
/16? The existing /24
holders will override (punch holes in) the /16 for their
/24's.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William D. Herrin                  herrindirtside.com  billherrin.us
3005 Crane Dr.                        Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/>

Falls Church, VA 22042-3004

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, William Herrin wrote:

> Why should we announce tiny recycled blocks? If there
is a /16 in the
> swamp in which half the space is free but its all
/24's, why wouldn't
> wouldn't we allocate all the free /24's to a single
entity and
> instruct the entity to announce it as a
"holey" /16? The existing /24
> holders will override (punch holes in) the /16 for
their /24's.

Except when there are /24-holder outages, at which point
their traffic 
gets hijacked by the /16 announcer.  Would you want to trust
some random 
company to not take advantage of that situation in any way
(collection of 
passwords, sampling your web traffic, putting up a fake
"your org" web 
site, etc.)?  As a holey /16 announcer, would you want all
the junk 
traffic that results from /24-holder outages?  What if one
of them was 
running NS's for a popular DNSBL, and their outage basically
caused a DDoS 
attack against your network?

------------------------------------------------------------
----------
  Jon Lewis                   |  I route
  Senior Network Engineer     |  therefore you are
  Atlantic Net                |
_________ http://www.lewis.org
/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________

At 9:12 AM -0400 8/30/07, William Herrin wrote:
>On 8/30/07, John Curran <jcurranmail.com> wrote:
>> I.E.  If at some time unknown around 2010, ISP's
stop receiving
>> new allocations from their RIR, and instead use of
many smaller
>> "recycled" IPv4 address blocks, we could
be looking at a 10x to
>> 20x increase in routes per month for the same
customer growth.
>
>John,
>
>Why should we announce tiny recycled blocks? If there is
a /16 in the
>swamp in which half the space is free but its all /24's,
why wouldn't
>wouldn't we allocate all the free /24's to a single
entity and
>instruct the entity to announce it as a
"holey" /16? The existing /24
>holders will override (punch holes in) the /16 for their
/24's.

Consider large ISP's that can no longer obtain from the
large blocks
(e.g. /12 to /16) but instead must beg/barter/borrow blocks
from others
which are several orders  of magnitude smaller (e.g. /16
through /24)
every week to continue growing...  such obtained blocks
would be
announced into the routing system very rapidly as we try to
keep
IPv4 running post depletion of the free address pool.  When
this
inflection point is reached, how much headroom do we have
given
equipment being deployed today?

/John

William Herrin wrote:
> On 8/30/07, John Curran <jcurranmail.com> wrote:
>> I.E.  If at some time unknown around 2010, ISP's
stop receiving
>> new allocations from their RIR, and instead use of
many smaller
>> "recycled" IPv4 address blocks, we could
be looking at a 10x to
>> 20x increase in routes per month for the same
customer growth.
> 
> John,
> 
> Why should we announce tiny recycled blocks? If there
is a /16 in the
> swamp in which half the space is free but its all
/24's, why wouldn't
> wouldn't we allocate all the free /24's to a single
entity and
> instruct the entity to announce it as a
"holey" /16? The existing /24
> holders will override (punch holes in) the /16 for
their /24's.

And when they withdraw the more specific or you glop them
together in
your fib in the name of agregation a 3rd party gets all
their traffic?
I'm sure that will work really well.

> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
> 
>