Geographic map of IPv6 availability

Has anyone seen a map showing geographic availability of
IPv6 in North
America like this Russian example?

http:/
/www.ipv6.ru/russian/history/map/map.php

If you click on the cities they are mostly showing State
Universities,
but something that showed both R&E and commercial
operators separately
with some kind of color coding (temperature?) for the number
of
organizations offering the service, would be interesting to
follow
progress over the next two to three years.

It's one way to debunk the myth that IPv6 is really hard to
find.

-------------------------------------------------------
Michael Dillon
RadianzNet Capacity Management -- BT Design
66 Prescot St., bond, E1 8HG, UK
Mobile: +44 7900 823 672 
Internet: michael.dillonbt.com
Phone: +44 20 7650 9493 Fax: +44 20 7650 9030
http://www.btradianz.com

 
One Community One Connection One Focus 

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:18:34 +0100
<michael.dillonbt.com> wrote:

> It's one way to debunk the myth that IPv6 is really
hard to find.

I just realized that IPv6 web sites are not being indexed
by
Google.  That would make IPv6 content really hard to find.

What can we do about that?  Any Google people on NANOG?

-- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the
first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible,
you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian
W. Kernighan

Vint Cerf works for Google now, as does Harald Alvestrand. I
don't  
know if
either are on NANOG, but both are certainly appraochable.

Regards
Marshall

On Oct 5, 2007, at 9:40 AM, Rik van Riel wrote:

>
> On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:18:34 +0100
> <michael.dillonbt.com> wrote:
>
>> It's one way to debunk the myth that IPv6 is really
hard to find.
>
> I just realized that IPv6 web sites are not being
indexed by
> Google.  That would make IPv6 content really hard to
find.
>
> What can we do about that?  Any Google people on
NANOG?
>
> -- 
> "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in
the first place.
> Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as
possible, you are,
> by definition, not smart enough to debug it." -
Brian W. Kernighan

On 4 Oct 2007, at 00:18, <michael.dillonbt.com>  
<michael.dillonbt.com> wrote:

>
> Has anyone seen a map showing geographic availability
of IPv6 in North
> America like this Russian example?
>
> http:/
/www.ipv6.ru/russian/history/map/map.php
>
> If you click on the cities they are mostly showing
State Universities,
> but something that showed both R&E and commercial
operators separately
> with some kind of color coding (temperature?) for the
number of
> organizations offering the service, would be
interesting to follow
> progress over the next two to three years.
>
> It's one way to debunk the myth that IPv6 is really
hard to find.

the best way to debunk the 'myth' would be to find some

let me see now how about content, lets do some AAAA
lookups:

Google - no
Microsoft - no
Yahoo - no
YouTube - no
Facebook - no

well, maybe that'll follow.. lets look for a v6 provider
here in the UK:

VirginMedia cable - no
BT ADSL - no
Pipex ADSL - no
Tiscali ADSL - no
Talktalk ADSL - no

I see some carriers can provide me v6 transit or peering,
typically  
its bundled with their v4 offerings or at a reduced rate but
other  
than being part of the 'v6 backbone' what exactly can i get
to?

Given the above, I think there is no myth.. !

Steve

> Vint Cerf works for Google now, as does Harald
Alvestrand. I 
> don't know if either are on NANOG, but both are
certainly 
> appraochable.

vintgoogle.com and htagoogle.com

On 6/10/2007, at 3:18 AM, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
> <stuff>
> Given the above, I think there is no myth.. !

That's because the 'v6 network' is broken enough that
putting AAAA  
records on sites that need to be well reachable is a bad
idea.

For example, due mainly to Vista's 6to4 tunnelling stuff
(based on  
researching a random sample of users), I'd lose about 4% of
visitors  
to my web-sites if I were to turn on AAAA records.

For a transit provider, having an unreachable (or seemingly 

unreachable) web-site is a really bad idea.

--
Nathan Ward

Nathan Ward wrote:
> 
> On 6/10/2007, at 3:18 AM, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
>> <stuff>
>> Given the above, I think there is no myth.. !
> 
> That's because the 'v6 network' is broken enough that
putting AAAA 
> records on sites that need to be well reachable is a
bad idea.
> 
> For example, due mainly to Vista's 6to4 tunnelling
stuff (based on 
> researching a random sample of users), I'd lose about
4% of visitors to 
> my web-sites if I were to turn on AAAA records.

Has anyone who was using AAAA records for a site turned them
off due to
reachability problems?

- Kevin

On Oct 5, 2007, at 10:38 PM, Kevin Loch wrote:

>
> Nathan Ward wrote:
>> On 6/10/2007, at 3:18 AM, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
>>> <stuff>
>>> Given the above, I think there is no myth.. !
>> That's because the 'v6 network' is broken enough
that putting AAAA  
>> records on sites that need to be well reachable is
a bad idea.
>> For example, due mainly to Vista's 6to4 tunnelling
stuff (based on  
>> researching a random sample of users), I'd lose
about 4% of  
>> visitors to my web-sites if I were to turn on AAAA
records.
>
> Has anyone who was using AAAA records for a site turned
them off  
> due to
> reachability problems?
>

Yes. We tried it on one of our client's rather high profile
sites and  
had to turn it off because of exactly that problem.

We found a few friendly tech savvy users who were
experiencing the  
problem and followed up with them the best we could. The
reasons for  
the problems were:

Some had inadvertently enabled 6to4 (one admitted
remembering playing  
with it after reading about it on slashdot, then forgot
about it).
Some had installed one vendor's firewall that was trying to
be  
proactive and firewall v6 things as well. We never
determined if this  
was default behavior or not, but if you checked the
"Firewall v6  
traffic" box, it enabled the whole v6 stack just so
that it could  
firewall it.
Some we were never able to figure out why it broke
connectivity for  
them. Theories about transparent proxies doing the wrong
thing,  
broken resolvers or other issues floated up, but we could
never pin  
them down.

It definitely wasn't in the order of entire percentage
points of  
users being unable to access the site, but it was a non-zero
number  
and enough to make the site owner want the AAAA records
pulled.


I talked about this briefly at http://www.ipv6experime
nt.com and it's  
one of the things we plan on trying to measure when we
finally get it  
up and running.

-- Kevin

On 6 Oct 2007, at 05:53, Kevin Day wrote:

>
>
> On Oct 5, 2007, at 10:38 PM, Kevin Loch wrote:
>
>>
>> Nathan Ward wrote:
>>> On 6/10/2007, at 3:18 AM, Stephen Wilcox
wrote:
>>>> <stuff>
>>>> Given the above, I think there is no myth..
!
>>> That's because the 'v6 network' is broken
enough that putting  
>>> AAAA records on sites that need to be well
reachable is a bad idea.
>>> For example, due mainly to Vista's 6to4
tunnelling stuff (based  
>>> on researching a random sample of users), I'd
lose about 4% of  
>>> visitors to my web-sites if I were to turn on
AAAA records.
>>
>> Has anyone who was using AAAA records for a site
turned them off  
>> due to
>> reachability problems?
>>
>
> Yes. We tried it on one of our client's rather high
profile sites  
> and had to turn it off because of exactly that
problem.

Ditto, we started enabling v6 a few years ago and tried dual
stacking  
some servers including DNS and www .. we noticed that hosts
were  
doing DNS lookups over v4 that would yield AAAA results to
v6  
addresses they could not reach and they preferred AAAA over
A so the  
end user experienced a mysterious hang then a timeout error

Steve

On 6-Oct-2007, at 0829, Peter Dambier wrote:

> The IPv6 is gone.

It's not unusual for the delegation NS set and the apex NS
set to be  
different. This is not a phenomenon which is isolated to
delegations  
from the root. The missing AAAA glue in the root zone seems
more like  
just another example of this, rather than something
insidiously IPv6- 
specific.

I'm not suggesting this state of affairs is good, but it's
certainly  
not unusual.


Joe