Re: Using RIR info to determine geographic location...

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:13:17 +0000
Greg Skinner <gdsbest.com> wrote:

> 
> Personally, I have trouble accepting some of the claims
the
> geotargeting companies have made, such as Quova's 99.9%
to the country
> level, and 95% to the US state level.  ( More info at
> http://www.quova
.com/page.php?id=132 ) Perhaps I'm just part of the
> outlying data; using the "three top search
engines" I rarely see them
> get the city correct (ie. where *I* am physically
located, as opposed
> to where the registration data says the block is
located), and have
> seen some glaring errors for the country in some
cases.
> 
> Geotargeting has turned into quite a business, and I'm
concerned that
> people who rely on these services do not fully
understand the risks.
> 
Some folks are relying on it for serious purposes.  Many
Internet
gambling sites use it to avoid serving US customers, for
example.
Their risk is criminal liability for the executive -- the
have a
strong incentive to get reliable data...  Some sports media
sites use it
to enforce local area blackouts; though that doesn't need to
be
perfect, if it's too imperfect they risk breach of contract
and
expensive lawsuits.

For the advertisers, best effort is probably good enough...

		--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbi
a.edu/~smb

On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 10:17:36PM -0500, Steven M. Bellovin
wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:13:17 +0000, Greg Skinner
<gdsbest.com> wrote:
> > Personally, I have trouble accepting some of the
claims the
> > geotargeting companies have made, such as Quova's
99.9% to the country
> > level, and 95% to the US state level.  ( More info
at
> > http://www.quova
.com/page.php?id=132 ) Perhaps I'm just part of the
> > outlying data; using the "three top search
engines" I rarely see them
> > get the city correct (ie. where *I* am physically
located, as opposed
> > to where the registration data says the block is
located), and have
> > seen some glaring errors for the country in some
cases.
> > 
> > Geotargeting has turned into quite a business, and
I'm concerned that
> > people who rely on these services do not fully
understand the risks.
> > 
> Some folks are relying on it for serious purposes. 
Many Internet
> gambling sites use it to avoid serving US customers,
for example.
> Their risk is criminal liability for the executive --
the have a
> strong incentive to get reliable data...  Some sports
media sites use it
> to enforce local area blackouts; though that doesn't
need to be
> perfect, if it's too imperfect they risk breach of
contract and
> expensive lawsuits.
> 
> For the advertisers, best effort is probably good
enough...
> 
> 		--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbi
a.edu/~smb

Funny you should mention sports media sites.  Not too long
ago,
someone asked on usenet how to foil geotargeting in order to
watch a
sportscast that was being blocked.  The answer was posted
not long
after the question.  It doesn't surprise me that "the
word is out" on
how to foil geotargeting, but it disturbs me that this
aspect of
geotargeting is not discussed more.  I would prefer it if
there were more
openness and transparency about such things (without
necessarily
divulging the exact means by which geotargeting can be
foiled).

The Carleton paper ( http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~jamuir/papers/TR-06-05.pdf
)
goes into some detail on the practical limits of
geotargeting, but it
has been difficult to raise this type of awareness among
consumers of
geotargeting services.

WRT advertisers, opinions are mixed on whether best effort
is good
enough, fraud aside.  Some feel any discrepancies are just a
cost of
doing business on the Internet; hopefully they have
factored
discrepancies into their ad spend.  Others are more
skeptical.  Some
of you may find ( http://blog.merjis.com/2007/10/19/adwords-geotarget
ing-myths/ )
interesting.

--gregbo