Formfill - addendum - don't answer the 20:02 email

Thread: Formfill - addendum - don't answer the 20:02 email

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Formfill - addendum - don't answer the 20:02 email
	2006-01-16 22:04:21
> > > > Mike Bell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike wrote: > > > > > > >On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 05:10:30PM -0500, Chuck Stickelman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>Henry Keultjes wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>I will go with those answers, that it can be done and, if necessary, > > > >>>Mike could probably show me an application at Miami Systems. > > > >>> > > > >>>The key is what Chuck mentioned, that the "master" is in one file > > while > > > >>>the fill data is in another file so that there is a minimal need for > > > >>>storing data because the master is stored once while the fill-in > > can be > > > >>>stored many times. > > > >>> > > > >>>However, the software has to be Open Source so that there are no > > > >>>licensing isssues. Isn't there an Open Source alternative to Acrobat? > > > >>> > > > >>>Henry > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>There are many Open-Source PDF viewers. However, I'm not sure that > > > >>there are any that support FDF/XFDF data files... Though anyone can > > > >>download and use Acrobat Reader... while that's not Open Source it's > > > >>also not much of a problem... (How many applications distribute > > Acrobat > > > >>Reader with their products...!?) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >I don't know of any Open source PDF viewers that support PDF forms in > > > >any way. I belive xpdf may have limited javascript support, this isn't > > > >what is needed though. To this day if you want to use PDF forms your > > > >locked into Adobe. Period. Atleast on the *nix side. There are some > > > >shareware tools on M$ that can extend what little you can do in Acrobat > > > >reader. Such as actually save out the data that you put into a form. > > > > > > > >Some days I think that Adobe is either following M$ or they are in bed > > > >with them. Of course it could be that there simply isn't enough demand > > > >for an OSS solution to PDF forms. The implimentation details in all > > > >their gory detail are available from Adobe. 1100 or 1200 pages plus for > > > >the 1.5 specs. That doesn't even cover all the forms stuff either, > > > >in in another few hunderd pages of specs. > > > > > > > >As of Acrobat 7 there is a new specification and once again the forms > > > >submission mechanism has changed. I've yet to read a favorable > > > >response to the new forms stuff. > > > > > > > >It should be noted that you can create PDF forms with Scribus. I've > > > >done some with it. The results haven't been that great for me. Keep > > > >in mind though that I'm far for any kind of graphic artist type. > > > >Also even though I've pulled off a few things with PDF forms I still > > > >consider myself at beginner level, considering the weight of the PDF > > > >specs. > > > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > Here's something that someone with a bit more time mght want to explore. > > > OpenOffice.org can create PDFs. It can also be used to create XML Forms. > > > Questions: > > > > > > 1. If you create an XML Form and then export the file to a PDF does > > > it make a fillable-for PDF? (Initial answer: Yes!) > > > 2. Can the data in the fillable-form PDF be saved in an xternal file? > > > 3. If so, what is the format of the data file? > > > > > > (Knowing the OOo folks and their adoption of standards I'd venture a > > > guess that it'd be XML -- even if it didn't conform to the XFDF format > > > it'd only take a bit of XSL-T work to manipulate it... probabbly > > > something OOo could handle...) > > > > > > Now, here's what I'd recommend: > > > > > > 1. Create an XML form in OOo. > > > 2. Add some logic (JavaScript?) to the form for data manipulation. > > > 3. Export the form as PDF. > > > 4. Use Acrobat Reader to test the results. > > > 5. Let us know what you found... > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > This looks like something to persue.. > > > > In the first list, item 2, how can you save the data? Acrobat Reader > > doesn't have this ability that I'm aware of. Maybe if you print to > > file? Would imagine that this gives you *all* of the for though not > > just the fdf/xfdf. > > > > Mike > > Hooking the Print feature might also be a way to do this... getting the > data to be the only thin printed, would be the first step. Formatting > it as XML, the second... > > You could also save the data by adding a button to the form (with a bit > of JavaScript, perhaps...) (You can also make the button not show up > when the form is printed.) OOo seems to support what would be needed to > get at the data, though you might have to feed it to a CGI of some > sort... Though I have played games like this to get output to a file... > part of the CD-ROM project Miami Systems... > > (Mike: I think one of the Graphics Artists (Darren) created some PDF > Forms for data gathering for Chuck Leemaster's group. I'd guess they > are still floating around soemwhere in Shelby... maybe on a dead MAC's > hd...) > > Anyway, you CAN use a PDF for data collection. I just don't know how... > yet... Someone enlighten me! > > Chuck > Well now we are getting somewhere. I understand about creating a submit button. Actually the forms that Darren created have been fairly extensivly modified by moi. I was just digging here to see if you knew something/somehow in reader to get the actual data to a file. I don't believe that the submit button can save to a local file. Typically it goes either to a mailto: or http: the later then would presumably take some action with the data. One can get the data with the full Acrobat product. Doubt that many are going to shell out the bucks for that just to save out some data though. Still I'm intriged by the XML form from OOo and then the export to PDF. This could have some potential. Actually you can do this with pdftk now that I think about it. D'oh, I may already have something close to this dicussion done. The biggest problem with this is it's tied to one forms fields. Wouldn't be much use to an end user. Somewhere I think there was a referance to pdftk grabing field info from the PDF form, then dynamically building an entry interface, then said data could be saved off, again via pdftk. Perhaps it was on www.pdfhacks.com somewhere? Will look later. Mike