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Thread: Re: "ocaml_beginners"::[] off topic (job search with ML on resume)




Re: "ocaml_beginners"::[] off topic (job search with ML on resume)
country flaguser name
United States
2008-07-08 05:01:06

Having Ocaml on your resume is probably harmless because most sw.
shops wouldn't even notice it. The point I was trying to make is don't
state in your resume or cover letter or during the interview that
you'd bring to the table the code safety, reliability and productivity
of Ocaml, because that would stir resentment.
No resident software architect in his right mind would help to hire
someone who he perceives as a threat to himself, after all it would
take many months before he can master the new language and way of
thinking and he'd be ceding his power to you.
Also a new grad has little to fear, the risks and uncertainties of
emphasizing the benefits you'd bring to a company (using your ML/FP
knowledge) are mostly applicable to sw. developers with substantial
experience after academia.

--- In ocaml_beginners%40yahoogroups.com">ocaml_beginnersyahoogroups.com, "Sashan Govender"
<sashang...> wrote:
&gt;
> > Summary - unless the workplace where you're going is already using ML
> > you should not mention under any circumstances that you are proficient
> > in this programming paradigm.
> > Once you get in, it may require enormous will power, luck or personal
> > charisma to succeed in applying ML, and educating your co-workers to
> > follow suit, i.e. expect an uphill battle, i.e. a big power struggle.
> >
>; > Anyone care to repudiate this conclusion or share an opinion?
> >
>;
> It may be a good thing to mention functional programming and
> associated languages on your resume because it would filter out those
&gt; employers that you wouldn't want to work for anyway, and attract those
&gt; employers that understand it you would be more likely to work for.
>;
> Personally I've never had a job using a functional language, although
> I would relish the opportunity to do so. Most of the jobs I've had
> involve C/C++. For what it's worth I do mention that I'm learning
> OCaml on my resume and don't mind if I'm ignored because of that.
&gt;
> --
> sashan
&gt; http://sashang.orcon.net.nz/
>

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Re: "ocaml_beginners"::[] off topic (job search with ML on resume)
user name
2008-07-08 08:13:25

> Having Ocaml on your resume is probably harmless because most sw.
> shops wouldn't even notice it. The point I was trying to make is don't
&gt; state in your resume or cover letter or during the interview that
>; you'd bring to the table the code safety, reliability and productivity
> of Ocaml, because that would stir resentment.
>
Wandering in and telling a company *in an interview* how they should be doing their job will never
win you points. Unless, of course, you're a consultant and that's your schtick.

~~ Robert.

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Re: "ocaml_beginners"::[] off topic (job search with ML on resume)
country flaguser name
Germany
2008-07-08 09:17:43

Zitat von Robert Fischer < robert.fischer%40SmokeJumperIT.com">robert.fischerSmokeJumperIT.com&gt;:

&gt; > Having Ocaml on your resume is probably harmless because most sw.
> > shops wouldn't even notice it. The point I was trying to make is
> don't
&gt; > state in your resume or cover letter or during the interview that
>; > you'd bring to the table the code safety, reliability and
> productivity
> > of Ocaml, because that would stir resentment.
> >
>; Wandering in and telling a company *in an interview* how they should
&gt; be doing their job will never
&gt; win you points. Unless, of course, you're a consultant and that's
&gt; your schtick.
[...]

Well, I once had an interview for a Perl-project,
in industry. They had a test-system for integrated circuits
which neede some optimizations. I mentioned OCaml
and the advanatges, and I think this was the worst thing I could do.

People want their problems to be solved and they need someone who holds
their hand and smoothly says them: "Yes, all will be good some day,
don't cry... fear is not necessary... believe in me."

and when you come with new technology, people are afraid!

New means danger.

And this is even the case in a technology industry,
which should be open to new things.

They are afraid that the new methods (or languages) could brake
the already running system (never change a running sytem)
of "how-we-do-it-since-decades".

But I also has seen this kind of fear in internet start-ups,
at those times, when they came up every where.

So, I doubt I will push my interest in OCaml in interviews,
at least not until I have the contract.

Next time, when they ask for Perl or C,
I would not mention OCaml... at least not,
if the project is interesting

The risk in their eyes to be the one who makes them
problems, instead of solving their problems, is too high.

In another project were I had done Perl-programming,
I could convince my team leader just to try some
things with OCaml. First he said: no problem. Then he got
cold feet... I should better not do.
But after I showed him some things on the toplevel,
he said: "OK, I trust you will do the best, do with any
language you want to use."

But this was after I had worked on that projects since some months
and could convince them with the results of my former Perl and C
progamming.

I mention OCaml in ym CV, but when it is not explicitly mentioned
to use it, one should not mention it.

Not only is new technology creating fears... it also may be bothering
them, because they think that - in you eyeys - they are using
old technologies.

And which technology company would say loud and clear:
"Yes, we are a big company and onw with the best technology
on market, but compared to you we are an outdated dinosaur!&quot;

If they may loose their face, how could they convince you
to work there? And when they lost their face, could they ever
give you a directive/command?

So they fear, if you know too much.

And when they (maybe because of that) don't hire you (the same for
others), they moan there are not enough good educated people on the
market....

...this way they will never find them.

Ciao,
Oliver

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Re: "ocaml_beginners"::[] off topic (job search with ML on resume)
country flaguser name
Germany
2008-07-08 09:22:22

Zitat von Oliver Bandel < oliver%40first.in-berlin.de">oliverfirst.in-berlin.de>:
[...]
> I mention OCaml in ym CV, but when it is not explicitly mentioned
> to use it, one should not mention it.
[...]

...should not mention it in an interview, I mean here.

Ciao,
Oliver

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