The new OpenBSD

I had sent this as a private message to Kyrre Nygard but
what the hell, 
in this rash moment let me just put on my nomex underwear
and let 'er rip...


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: The new OpenBSD
Date: 	Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:50:39 -0400
From: 	Wes Kussmaul <wesvillage.com>
To: 	Kyrre Nygard <kyrrenybroadpark.no>
References: 	<7.0.1.0.2.20060405151010.0235d070broadpark.no>



You are going to run up against the people who insist that
OpenBSD is 
"just for us", just something for the insiders
to tinker with, and they 
don't care at all whether anyone else
("outsiders", "newbies" etc. etc.) 
even knows about it.

Of course if that were really true they wouldn't maintain a
site and 
logo at all. The fact is that Theo & crew are very
conflicted about this 
issue and you open yourself up to a major flaming if you
bring it up to 
them anywhere but this list, which I don't think they even
look at.

In fact, this is why I'm sending this to you privately.
There is no 
group in the whole open source world that gets more
territorial and 
aggressively hostile than these guys. They have their little
club, they 
have their secret handshake, and what are we civilians doing
in there 
anyway?

Of course OpenBSD is a great product and deserves better.
Let me know if 
you want to collaborate on a "non-fork", a
distribution of OpenBSD that 
comes with friendly support and attactive packaging and a
nice site and 
even maybe a new brand. We can send them money as it makes
money, but we 
will have a rule that any time one of their people
communicates with one 
of our customers they will treat the customer as a customer,
with 
helpful courtesy regardless of how dumb they think the
question is. For 
this we will pay them a portion of our proceeds.

This is what they need. They need money but they can't
bring themselves 
to be courteous to those who might be able to provide money.
We must 
save them from themselves. We'll throw some money and raw
meat into the 
carnivores' pit and they will take it and benefit from it
and the 
product will strengthen as a result, even as they yell at us
for not 
trimming the meat properly.

Wes Kussmaul

Kyrre Nygard wrote:

> Hello folks!
>
> I'll just get straight to it ...
>
> OpenBSD needs a new website, complimented by a new
identity.
>
> It needs more manpower so it can level up with other
operating systems 
> and
> eliminate the advantages they have over it. The only
way to do this -- 
> without
> burning the brains of existing developers -- is to
become more 
> attractive. It
> needs to arouse interest to newcomers. Bad design
causes any project, 
> company
> or organization to stagger, mentally, physically and
sometimes even
> economically. A redesign would be a fresh start, a
chance to roll off 
> some new
> wheels.
>
> Everything in existence needs fresh supplies of things.
There are so many
> analogies on how visual aesthetics improve things that
I don't know where
> to start. Look at how the world of business is
increasingly depending on
> designers to add value to their offerings. Governments
are even 
> encouraging
> design schools to help improve their public and private
sectors.
>
> How should the project represents its attributes to the
rest of the 
> world? It
> should be sent off into the future with a design that
will help it 
> sustain. Yes
> I'm sure this is cause for a lot of flame. Some might
say it's the 
> inside that
> counts. But OpenBSD is already diamond on the inside,
what I'm writing 
> about
> here is strictly for the wrapping. I am aware that
there have been no 
> official
> indications of dissatisfaction with the current site,
that it serves its
> purpose well by being simple and straight to the point.
But a redesign 
> could
> offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy --
without looking 
> outdated.
>
> Some of you might be reluctant to agree with me because
of Free- and 
> NetBSD's
> underachievement in this aim. FreeBSD's logo is but
useless enecandy that
> doesn't fulfill the criterias of a modern day logo, 
> http://tinyurl.com/pllzn.
> The contest was only announced internally, and the
potential from 
> involving
> design universities and communities was completely
neglected. In 
> addition, only
> a few selected people got to vote. I doubt they were
that familiar 
> with design;
> at least not as the real world sees it: http://tinyurl.com/rhlml. As 
> for the
> NetBSD logo, I'd rather stare down a public toilet.
>
> I certainly have the ability and passion to create
OpenBSD's new 
> website and
> identity. For years I have dreamt of this project
taking off in the 
> same state
> it's always been in (with a small dedicated team,
exercising extreme 
> care in
> the correction of details) except with the looks to
make people think 
> it's a
> corporate giant. Speaking as an architect, an interior
designer, a 
> graphic
> designer, a communication designer and an information
designer -- if I 
> were to
> be selected as the man for this task I'd surely
produce an outcome 
> that would
> burn both sun.com and sgi.com down to the ground.
>
> I would like to raise money so I can work fulltime on
this. To get 
> where I want
> I must design at least 30 different drafts before I
find a balance 
> with which
> I'll turn into valid and well coded XHTML, CSS and
PHP, and maybe even 
> some
> Ruby and Ajax. There's nothing new with open source
developers trying 
> to raise
> funds to devote more of themselves (http://tinyurl.com/g8vp4
,
> http://tinyurl.com/mfzmv
), although in this case the fundraiser is an 
> open
> source designer.
>
> I'm afraid to first spend hours making an draft that
might be completely
> ignored, as I'm not sure how the OpenBSD community
will react to this 
> proposal.
> If anybody is interesting in supporting me in creating
something that 
> it is
> almost guaranteed that Mr Theo de Raadt and the rest of
his community 
> will
> immediately fall for, do get in touch and I can provide
you with 
> earlier works.
>
> Thank you all for listening,
>
> I know it's hard to write to such a list without
offending people,
> I hope, however, that I managed to.
>
> All the best,
> Kyrre
>
>
>


-- 
Wes Kussmaul
CIO
The Village Group
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

781-647-7178


My uncle likes to say that the worlds biggest troubles
started when the serpent said, Try this fruit, and by the
way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves
Arthur Andersen signs something its the same as if a person
named Arthur Andersen signed it. I dont get the serpent
and fruit part. Must be some Swiss mythology thing. He can
be a bit obscure. 

                        P.K. Iggy
                        _How I Like Fixed The Internet_
                          (Tales from the Great
Infodepression of 2009
                          and the prosperity that followed)





-- 
Wes Kussmaul
CIO
The Village Group
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

781-647-7178


My uncle likes to say that the worlds biggest troubles
started when the serpent said, Try this fruit, and by the
way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves
Arthur Andersen signs something its the same as if a person
named Arthur Andersen signed it. I dont get the serpent
and fruit part. Must be some Swiss mythology thing. He can
be a bit obscure. 

                         P.K. Iggy
                         _How I Like Fixed The Internet_
                           (Tales from the Great
Infodepression of 2009
                           and the prosperity that followed)

On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:12:43PM -0400, Wes Kussmaul
wrote:
> I had sent this as a private message to Kyrre Nygard
but what the hell, 
> in this rash moment let me just put on my nomex
underwear and let 'er rip...
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Re: The new OpenBSD
> Date: 	Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:50:39 -0400
> From: 	Wes Kussmaul <wesvillage.com>
> To: 	Kyrre Nygard <kyrrenybroadpark.no>
> References: 	<7.0.1.0.2.20060405151010.0235d070broadpark.no>
> 
> 
> 
> You are going to run up against the people who insist
that OpenBSD is 
> "just for us", just something for the
insiders to tinker with, and they 
> don't care at all whether anyone else
("outsiders", "newbies" etc. etc.) 
> even knows about it.

Right, thats why we make it available to the world for free.
 Makes perfect
sense.

> 
> Of course if that were really true they wouldn't
maintain a site and 
> logo at all. The fact is that Theo & crew are very
conflicted about this 
> issue and you open yourself up to a major flaming if
you bring it up to 
> them anywhere but this list, which I don't think they
even look at.

Why are we conflicted?

> 
> In fact, this is why I'm sending this to you
privately. There is no 
> group in the whole open source world that gets more
territorial and 
> aggressively hostile than these guys. They have their
little club, they 
> have their secret handshake, and what are we civilians
doing in there 
> anyway?

The only club we have is a pool of incredibly talented
engineers that write
code and give it away for free.  If one is a talented
engineer one can become
part of the club.  If you are saying that the club is
exclusive then yes that's
right.  Do you want untalented people to write *your* code?

The secret handshake is called diffs.  Diffs that make sense
and are well
written.  Nothing more.  Civilians are more than welcome to
play with our
stuff.

Finally hostility comes from stupidity.  Yes there is such a
thing as a dumb
question.  As a matter of fact I do that all the time.  Do
you really think I
have a clue how to fix a car?  How do you think the mechanic
perceives me?  Let
me help, like an idiot...  And (s)he is right!

> 
> Of course OpenBSD is a great product and deserves
better. Let me know if 
> you want to collaborate on a "non-fork", a
distribution of OpenBSD that 
> comes with friendly support and attactive packaging and
a nice site and 
> even maybe a new brand. We can send them money as it
makes money, but we 
> will have a rule that any time one of their people
communicates with one 
> of our customers they will treat the customer as a
customer, with 
> helpful courtesy regardless of how dumb they think the
question is. For 
> this we will pay them a portion of our proceeds.

Why do technology companies have tech support people as a
front line to
customers?

Ask yourself that question and think about it for a while.

> 
> This is what they need. They need money but they can't
bring themselves 
> to be courteous to those who might be able to provide
money. We must 
> save them from themselves. We'll throw some money and
raw meat into the 
> carnivores' pit and they will take it and benefit from
it and the 
> product will strengthen as a result, even as they yell
at us for not 
> trimming the meat properly.

This is a very odd observation.  Really.

OpenBSD developers are really really nice people however
they do not react well
to stupidity.  You are mistaking discourteous questions for
courteous answers.
I think you might also be mistaken about the definition of
donation.

Let me quote:
The act of giving to a fund or cause.

Nowhere in there do I read "trade" or
"exchange", which is what you are
implying.

> 
> Wes Kussmaul

/marco

Marco Peereboom wrote:

>On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:12:43PM -0400, Wes Kussmaul
wrote:
>  
>
>>You are going to run up against the people who
insist that OpenBSD is 
>>"just for us", just something for the
insiders to tinker with, and they 
>>don't care at all whether anyone else
("outsiders", "newbies" etc. etc.) 
>>even knows about it.
>>    
>>
>
>Right, thats why we make it available to the world for
free.  Makes perfect
>sense.
>  
>
I know, it baffles me too. The policies are as accommodating
as any in 
the open source community but...

Oh wait, are you saying that that "just for us"
claim is not regularly 
made by the committers and other club members? Gee, if I had
a couple 
minutes I could probably find a couple dozen instances...

>>Of course if that were really true they wouldn't
maintain a site and 
>>logo at all. The fact is that Theo & crew are
very conflicted about this 
>>issue and you open yourself up to a major flaming if
you bring it up to 
>>them anywhere but this list, which I don't think
they even look at.
>>    
>>
>
>Why are we conflicted?
>  
>
I dunno. Beats me.

>>In fact, this is why I'm sending this to you
privately. There is no 
>>group in the whole open source world that gets more
territorial and 
>>aggressively hostile than these guys. They have
their little club, they 
>>have their secret handshake, and what are we
civilians doing in there 
>>anyway?
>>    
>>
>
>The only club we have is a pool of incredibly talented
engineers that write
>code and give it away for free.  If one is a talented
engineer one can become
>part of the club.  If you are saying that the club is
exclusive then yes that's
>right.  Do you want untalented people to write *your*
code?
>
>The secret handshake is called diffs.  Diffs that make
sense and are well
>written.  Nothing more.  Civilians are more than welcome
to play with our
>stuff.
>
>Finally hostility comes from stupidity.  
>
No, the hostility does not come from stupidity. I fully
agree, the club 
is populated with incredibly talented and smart people. 

>Yes there is such a thing as a dumb
>question.  As a matter of fact I do that all the time. 
Do you really think I
>have a clue how to fix a car?  How do you think the
mechanic perceives me?  Let
>me help, like an idiot...  And (s)he is right!
>  
>
Wow, I'm glad I don't use your mechanic. Mine understands
that my 
expertise lies elsewhere and communicates with me
accordingly. He does 
not regard me as an idiot.

Plus, there is this other consideration. He is both provider
of 
expertise and explainer of technology. If those who provide
expertise 
don't care to deal with the "idiots" that need
it explained, then, hell, 
put someone in between that can deal with the troublesome
idiots who in 
this case go by the name "customer".

Customer. It's from the Latin meaning "Does not have
to RTFM if he 
doesn't want to; has license to be less intelligent or
industrious than 
oneself" where F=Fine.

>>Of course OpenBSD is a great product and deserves
better. Let me know if 
>>you want to collaborate on a "non-fork",
a distribution of OpenBSD that 
>>comes with friendly support and attactive packaging
and a nice site and 
>>even maybe a new brand. We can send them money as it
makes money, but we 
>>will have a rule that any time one of their people
communicates with one 
>>of our customers they will treat the customer as a
customer, with 
>>helpful courtesy regardless of how dumb they think
the question is. For 
>>this we will pay them a portion of our proceeds.
>>    
>>
>
>Why do technology companies have tech support people as
a front line to
>customers?
>
>Ask yourself that question and think about it for a
while.
>  
>
Um, I think I just did.

Oh, right, to protect engineers. Nothing to do with keeping
the people 
with the checkbooks happy, right?

Like, nothing to do with protection going the other way?

Still thinking though... wait... it's coming...

Technology companies have tech support people as front line
to customers 
because... it's good business!

Did I get it? Or am I voted off the island?

>>This is what they need. They need money but they
can't bring themselves 
>>to be courteous to those who might be able to
provide money. We must 
>>save them from themselves. We'll throw some money
and raw meat into the 
>>carnivores' pit and they will take it and benefit
from it and the 
>>product will strengthen as a result, even as they
yell at us for not 
>>trimming the meat properly.
>>    
>>
>
>This is a very odd observation.  Really.
>
>OpenBSD developers are really really nice people however
they do not react well
>to stupidity.  You are mistaking discourteous questions
for courteous answers.
>I think you might also be mistaken about the definition
of donation.
>
>Let me quote:
>The act of giving to a fund or cause.
>
>Nowhere in there do I read "trade" or
"exchange", which is what you are
>implying.
>
>  
>
As I said, we'll just toss the money and meat over the
wall, without 
having been asked. No exchange implied.

I really have difficulty understanding your tone, as we are
in agreement 
on every point.

Now I must add a caveat to my rant. It's a RBP - rhetorical
business 
plan. I don't make decisions to launch new positioning and
packaging 
efforts on the basis of one list message.

Makes sense though.

>>Wes Kussmaul
>>    
>>
>
>/marco
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Wes Kussmaul
CIO
The Village Group
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

781-647-7178


My uncle likes to say that the world's biggest troubles
started when the serpent said, "Try this fruit, and by
the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves
Arthur Andersen signs something it's the same as if a
person named Arthur Andersen signed it." I don't get
the serpent and fruit part. Must be some Swiss mythology
thing. He can be a bit obscure. 

                         P.K. Iggy
                         _How I Like Fixed The Internet_
                           (Tales from the Great
Infodepression of 2009
                           and the prosperity that followed)

On 2006 Apr 5, at 3:57 PM, Wes Kussmaul wrote:

 > Technology companies have  tech support people as 
front line to
 > customers because... it's good business!

OpenBSD isn't a technology company. It's not a business.

It's  roughly  equal  parts   social  cooperative,  private
 club,
philanthropic endeavor, and personal hobby.

The goal of a company is to make money.

The  folks  who're OpenBSD  don't  give  a fuck  about 
money. No,
really--it just gets in the way. If they could do all this
without
worrying about money, they'd be  a lot happier. Every
minute spent
chasing money  is a minute  not spent  on hacking, and 
hacking is
what it's all about.  They only  worry about money when it
gets so
scarse that the lack of money  starts to detract from
hacking more
than chasing money does.

Think about  it for a  moment. Do you  have /any/ doubt 
that Theo
wouldn't need  more than a  week to find  a job with  a
six-figure
salary? That  most of  the rest  of the  developers
couldn't  find
above-average jobs for themselves in short order, too?

Like I said. They don't give a fuck about money.

 > Did I get it? Or am I voted off the island?

Hope you can swim....

Cheers,

b&

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type
application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]

Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> Marco Peereboom wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:12:43PM -0400, Wes
Kussmaul wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> You are going to run up against the people who
insist that OpenBSD is 
>>> "just for us", just something for
the insiders to tinker with, and they 
>>> don't care at all whether anyone else
("outsiders", "newbies" etc. etc.) 
>>> even knows about it.
>>>    
>>>
>> Right, thats why we make it available to the world
for free.  Makes perfect
>> sense.
>>  
>>
> I know, it baffles me too. The policies are as
accommodating as any in 
> the open source community but...

Please explain why you think this is.  I am truly curious.

> 
> Oh wait, are you saying that that "just for
us" claim is not regularly 
> made by the committers and other club members? Gee, if
I had a couple 
> minutes I could probably find a couple dozen
instances...

you are missing the point here.  Yes you can find those
emails.  Yes 
you'll find a dumb question attached to them.  have you
ever said to a 
mom: "that's a beautiful boy ma'am" to end up
being yelled at: "IT'S A 
GIRL!!!!!"

Same difference.

> 
>>> Of course if that were really true they
wouldn't maintain a site and 
>>> logo at all. The fact is that Theo & crew
are very conflicted about this 
>>> issue and you open yourself up to a major
flaming if you bring it up to 
>>> them anywhere but this list, which I don't
think they even look at.
>>>    
>>>
>> Why are we conflicted?
>>  
>>
> I dunno. Beats me.

You brought it up.  I'd like to understand what this means.

> 
>>> In fact, this is why I'm sending this to you
privately. There is no 
>>> group in the whole open source world that gets
more territorial and 
>>> aggressively hostile than these guys. They have
their little club, they 
>>> have their secret handshake, and what are we
civilians doing in there 
>>> anyway?
>>>    
>>>
>> The only club we have is a pool of incredibly
talented engineers that write
>> code and give it away for free.  If one is a
talented engineer one can become
>> part of the club.  If you are saying that the club
is exclusive then yes that's
>> right.  Do you want untalented people to write
*your* code?
>>
>> The secret handshake is called diffs.  Diffs that
make sense and are well
>> written.  Nothing more.  Civilians are more than
welcome to play with our
>> stuff.
>>
>> Finally hostility comes from stupidity.  
>>
> No, the hostility does not come from stupidity. I fully
agree, the club 
> is populated with incredibly talented and smart people.

> 
>> Yes there is such a thing as a dumb
>> question.  As a matter of fact I do that all the
time.  Do you really think I
>> have a clue how to fix a car?  How do you think the
mechanic perceives me?  Let
>> me help, like an idiot...  And (s)he is right!
>>  
>>
> Wow, I'm glad I don't use your mechanic. Mine
understands that my 
> expertise lies elsewhere and communicates with me
accordingly. He does 
> not regard me as an idiot.

Yes he does.  He is just friendly enough not to tell you.

Hey Dr. My ass itches, can I have pill ABC please?
Who is more qualified?  The guy that went to school to learn
about itchy 
asses for 12 years or joe blow that saw a tom cruise endorse

ass-itchy-cream commercial?
> 
> Plus, there is this other consideration. He is both
provider of 
> expertise and explainer of technology. If those who
provide expertise 
> don't care to deal with the "idiots" that
need it explained, then, hell, 
> put someone in between that can deal with the
troublesome idiots who in 
> this case go by the name "customer".

Did he design and build the car?

> 
> Customer. It's from the Latin meaning "Does not
have to RTFM if he 
> doesn't want to; has license to be less intelligent or
industrious than 
> oneself" where F=Fine.

No.  It means that person works in a servicing job.  That
means that 
person has to put up with whiny customers.  You see, they
get paid to 
listen to mostly horseshit.  Do you argue the
"quality" of your 
hamburger with the McDonnald's cashier?

> 
>>> Of course OpenBSD is a great product and
deserves better. Let me know if 
>>> you want to collaborate on a
"non-fork", a distribution of OpenBSD that 
>>> comes with friendly support and attactive
packaging and a nice site and 
>>> even maybe a new brand. We can send them money
as it makes money, but we 
>>> will have a rule that any time one of their
people communicates with one 
>>> of our customers they will treat the customer
as a customer, with 
>>> helpful courtesy regardless of how dumb they
think the question is. For 
>>> this we will pay them a portion of our
proceeds.
>>>    
>>>
>> Why do technology companies have tech support
people as a front line to
>> customers?
>>
>> Ask yourself that question and think about it for a
while.
>>  
>>
> Um, I think I just did.
> 
> Oh, right, to protect engineers. Nothing to do with
keeping the people 
> with the checkbooks happy, right?

No.

> 
> Like, nothing to do with protection going the other
way?

No.

> 
> Still thinking though... wait... it's coming...
> 
> Technology companies have tech support people as front
line to customers 
> because... it's good business!

And no.

0 for 3, good job!

You don't want your high paid engineers to talk to
customers because the 
customers AND the engineers will waste their time.  Unless
the customer 
is versed enough to deal with the engineer, which is
extremely rare. 
Engineers and customers speak a different language.  The
translation 
layer is called L2 or L3 support.  Even though one might
think one is 
asking an amazingly interesting, never heard of before,
totally new 
question, chances are engineering knows the answer without
thinking. 
The equivalent of this is having a 6 year old asking one
about math. 
Quite boring for a MSEE.

OpenBSD doesn't have L2 and L3 support.  So you are talking
directly to 
the folks that make it happen, guess what, no warm fuzzies,
no "that's a 
great question mr check-sending-customer".  You'll
get the raw 
engineering answer.  At my job I use these phrase daily:
"that's 
retarded" and "that's stupid" and
"hahahahah, who came up with that?".

There is one difference.  I do OpenBSD because I can; I work
because I 
have to pay the bills.

> 
> Did I get it? Or am I voted off the island?
> 
>>> This is what they need. They need money but
they can't bring themselves 
>>> to be courteous to those who might be able to
provide money. We must 
>>> save them from themselves. We'll throw some
money and raw meat into the 
>>> carnivores' pit and they will take it and
benefit from it and the 
>>> product will strengthen as a result, even as
they yell at us for not 
>>> trimming the meat properly.
>>>    
>>>
>> This is a very odd observation.  Really.
>>
>> OpenBSD developers are really really nice people
however they do not react well
>> to stupidity.  You are mistaking discourteous
questions for courteous answers.
>> I think you might also be mistaken about the
definition of donation.
>>
>> Let me quote:
>> The act of giving to a fund or cause.
>>
>> Nowhere in there do I read "trade" or
"exchange", which is what you are
>> implying.
>>
>>  
>>
> As I said, we'll just toss the money and meat over the
wall, without 
> having been asked. No exchange implied.

I am not a native speaker but I read: "We'll throw
some money and raw 
meat into the carnivores' pit and they will take it and
benefit from it 
and the product will strengthen as a result, even as they
yell at us for 
not trimming the meat properly".

as: "I like what you do but not that you aren't
taking any of my AMAZING 
never thought of super advise seriously".

> 
> I really have difficulty understanding your tone, as we
are in agreement 
> on every point.

My tone is nothing more than direct communication.  Do I
need to sweeten 
  it up a little?

> 
> Now I must add a caveat to my rant. It's a RBP -
rhetorical business 
> plan. I don't make decisions to launch new positioning
and packaging 
> efforts on the basis of one list message.
> 
> Makes sense though.

Does it?

What did you accomplish with this rant?

What was your goal for this email?

Not being an ass, I really wonder.

> 
>>> Wes Kussmaul
>>>    
>>>
>> /marco

Ben Goren wrote:

>On 2006 Apr 5, at 3:57 PM, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
>
> > Technology companies have  tech support people as 
front line to
> > customers because... it's good business!
>
>OpenBSD isn't a technology company. It's not a
business.
>
>It's  roughly  equal  parts   social  cooperative, 
private  club,
>philanthropic endeavor, and personal hobby.
>
>The goal of a company is to make money.
>
>The  folks  who're OpenBSD  don't  give  a fuck  about
 money. 
>
So glad to learn that the problem has been solved.

No, really. I use OpenBSD as a platform for an enrollment
system. Glad 
to know it's on solid financial ground. For my part I
always buy the 
disk rather than ftp it, because I lke to give back for
using such a 
great system.

Just in case that situation should change and OpenBSD might
(I know this 
is a stretch but bear with me) need an increased level of
funding, 
perhaps a commercial enterprise that provides OpenBSD under
a different 
name, packaging, etc. with paid support provided by its own
trained 
support people who actually take the time to elicit
information from a 
user who is less than lucid, might actually generate funds
(disgusting 
word, I know) that might be beneficial to OpenBSD.

Then the OpenBSD Sanhedrin members could maintain their
distance from 
the Declared Unclean and at the same time gifts of sheckels
could be 
laid at the door of the temple, to be carried inside or
burned as the 
priests see fit.

The nice thing about this plan is that it can be carried out
without 
petitioning the high priests for a blessing, as long as
Theo's copyright 
notice and the BSD license are preserved.

>No,
>really--it just gets in the way. If they could do all
this without
>worrying about money, they'd be  a lot happier. 
>
Hey, same here. Wish I didn't need money. Damn, that crap
just gets in 
the way.

Same with breathing. I mean this inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale
bit just 
gets so freaking tiresome.

>Every minute spent
>chasing money  is a minute  not spent  on hacking, and 
hacking is
>what it's all about.  They only  worry about money when
it gets so
>scarse that the lack of money  starts to detract from
hacking more
>than chasing money does.
>  
>
Gimme a break. If you want someone to get money for you then
treat them 
as though you value them and what they have to offer. If you
want to do 
it yourself then stop complaining, it was your choice.

>Think about  it for a  moment. Do you  have /any/ doubt 
that Theo
>wouldn't need  more than a  week to find  a job with  a
six-figure
>salary? That  most of  the rest  of the  developers
couldn't  find
>above-average jobs for themselves in short order, too?
>  
>
Hey, I'd give him one. I'll hire the lot of you. Hope you
don't mind if 
I keep you all in a separate building that's a good
distance from any 
sales or support offices.

>Like I said. They don't give a fuck about money.
>
> > Did I get it? Or am I voted off the island?
>
>Hope you can swim....
>  
>
See I sort of anticipated this, got a friend with a jetski
coming around...

>Cheers,
>
>b&
>
>[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type
application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
>
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Wes Kussmaul
CIO
The Village Group
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

781-647-7178


My uncle likes to say that the worlds biggest troubles
started when the serpent said, Try this fruit, and by the
way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves
Arthur Andersen signs something its the same as if a person
named Arthur Andersen signed it. I dont get the serpent
and fruit part. Must be some Swiss mythology thing. He can
be a bit obscure. 

                         P.K. Iggy
                         _How I Like Fixed The Internet_
                           (Tales from the Great
Infodepression of 2009
                           and the prosperity that followed)