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List Info
Thread: Re: tomtom on the Neo1973
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
 
Germany |
2007-04-02 11:39:23 |
If I remember correctly the company of smart2go was bought
by Nokia
last year.
So I don't think they will support other phones but Nokias
in near
future.
Regards
Karsten
On Monday 02 April 2007 11:42:51 Attila Csipa wrote:
> On Monday 02 April 2007 08:13, Hans L wrote:
> > I guess it is a question of whether the map
providers are willing to
> > cooperate and divulge the details of their file
format to an open source
> > project, or alternatively converting their data
into some open format for
> > use with such a project.
>
> In my experience this is highly unlikely. Their first
thought would be
> content protection - and on OpenMoko you (should) have
none. When they
> license data to software companies, it's easier, since
they have NDA-s,
> contractual obligations, etc, but they would see no
incentive to open up
> their formats. The income from end users buying open
format data is
> minuscule compared to the possible damages from pirated
data and/or lost
> bulk contracts from their point of view. And to
reiterate a personal
> opinion about commercial software on OM - please do not
change or put a
> minute of effort in OpenMoko to make commercial
software run easier than
> any other software (unless you get a substantial
donation  - if a
company
> is to make some money on OpenMoko users, let it at
least pay it's own costs
> in full.
and what about smart2go ?
www.smart2go.com
W
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 12:11:38 |
I'm happy with the capabilities of Google maps, except that
it doesn't
know where I am....
So given java support on OpenMoko, I think there is already
a fairly
generic mobile Java version of Google Maps that should just
work...
However to interface to the GPS we will need a modified
version. I
think there is at least one platform specific version of
Google Maps
that does have GPS integration.
I'm sure we can find someone at Google who can help us
figure out what
it would take to support the OpenMoko/Neo1973. I wouldn't be
surprise
if there was someone who works at Google subscribed to this
list
Adrian
On 4/2/07, karsten.at.openmokoonlinehome.de
<karsten.at.openmokoonlinehome.de> wrote:
> If I remember correctly the company of smart2go was
bought by Nokia
> last year.
> So I don't think they will support other phones but
Nokias in near
> future.
>
> Regards
> Karsten
>
> On Monday 02 April 2007 11:42:51 Attila Csipa wrote:
> > On Monday 02 April 2007 08:13, Hans L wrote:
> > > I guess it is a question of whether the map
providers are willing to
> > > cooperate and divulge the details of their
file format to an open source
> > > project, or alternatively converting their
data into some open format for
> > > use with such a project.
> >
> > In my experience this is highly unlikely. Their
first thought would be
> > content protection - and on OpenMoko you (should)
have none. When they
> > license data to software companies, it's easier,
since they have NDA-s,
> > contractual obligations, etc, but they would see
no incentive to open up
> > their formats. The income from end users buying
open format data is
> > minuscule compared to the possible damages from
pirated data and/or lost
> > bulk contracts from their point of view. And to
reiterate a personal
> > opinion about commercial software on OM - please
do not change or put a
> > minute of effort in OpenMoko to make commercial
software run easier than
> > any other software (unless you get a substantial
donation - if a
company
> > is to make some money on OpenMoko users, let it at
least pay it's own costs
> > in full.
>
> and what about smart2go ?
>
> www.smart2go.com
>
> W
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> communitylists.openmoko.org
>
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> communitylists.openmoko.org
>
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
|
2007-04-02 12:22:13 |
On 4/2/07, adrian cockcroft <adrian.cockcroftgmail.com> wrote:
> I'm happy with the capabilities of Google maps, except
that it doesn't
> know where I am....
Caching googlemaps tiles, and not through their client, is a
violation
of their Terms of Service. Same for all the other
providers. So
you're restricted to writing a client that either uses
commercial maps
(again, difficult to find providers that are willing to sell
'just the
data'), or open data such as OpenStreetMap or Vmap0 or
scanned in,
rectified, out-of-copyright maps.
To address the questions of quality/support of OSM - check
out this
recent blog post:
http://www.opengeod
ata.org/?p=189
The UK Ordnance Survey - national mapping agency - is
incorporating
their data into OSM, and also taking ownership of the OSM
data and
resources in order to better incorporate their efforts. What
this
means is that OSM will get very high-quality, very quickly.
At least
in the UK. The US-OSM is already bringing in the free
Tiger/Census map
data that most US maps are built on.
> So given java support on OpenMoko, I think there is
already a fairly
> generic mobile Java version of Google Maps that should
just work...
> However to interface to the GPS we will need a modified
version. I
> think there is at least one platform specific version
of Google Maps
> that does have GPS integration.
>
> I'm sure we can find someone at Google who can help us
figure out what
> it would take to support the OpenMoko/Neo1973. I
wouldn't be surprise
> if there was someone who works at Google subscribed to
this list
Right, but the bigger question is if Google wanted to
develop &
support their GmapsMobile for OpenMoko. This will be
difficult.
>
> Adrian
>
> On 4/2/07, karsten.at.openmokoonlinehome.de
> <karsten.at.openmokoonlinehome.de> wrote:
> > If I remember correctly the company of smart2go
was bought by Nokia
> > last year.
> > So I don't think they will support other phones
but Nokias in near
> > future.
> >
> > Regards
> > Karsten
> >
> > On Monday 02 April 2007 11:42:51 Attila Csipa
wrote:
> > > On Monday 02 April 2007 08:13, Hans L wrote:
> > > > I guess it is a question of whether the
map providers are willing to
> > > > cooperate and divulge the details of
their file format to an open source
> > > > project, or alternatively converting
their data into some open format for
> > > > use with such a project.
> > >
> > > In my experience this is highly unlikely.
Their first thought would be
> > > content protection - and on OpenMoko you
(should) have none. When they
> > > license data to software companies, it's
easier, since they have NDA-s,
> > > contractual obligations, etc, but they would
see no incentive to open up
> > > their formats. The income from end users
buying open format data is
> > > minuscule compared to the possible damages
from pirated data and/or lost
> > > bulk contracts from their point of view. And
to reiterate a personal
> > > opinion about commercial software on OM -
please do not change or put a
> > > minute of effort in OpenMoko to make
commercial software run easier than
> > > any other software (unless you get a
substantial donation - if a
company
> > > is to make some money on OpenMoko users, let
it at least pay it's own costs
> > > in full.
> >
> > and what about smart2go ?
> >
> > www.smart2go.com
> >
> > W
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > communitylists.openmoko.org
> >
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > communitylists.openmoko.org
> >
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> communitylists.openmoko.org
>
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
--
Andrew Turner
ajturnerhighearthorbit.com 42.4266N x 83.4931W
http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 14:21:38 |
According to OSM's wiki
(http://wiki.openst
reetmap.org/index.php/Getting_Involved#Recording_tracks_usin
g_a_GPS_receiver
Step 5), it would be a copyright violation to use Google
Maps in any
way to fill data into OSM. OSM insists in their guides that
you note
street names while you're traveling, since looking them up
after the
fact would constitute copyright violation.
-Steven
On 4/2/07, Jonathon Suggs <jsuggsmurmp.com> wrote:
> Here's an interesting question. What if you constantly
logged your
> position (while driving). Then when you got back home,
you could upload
> all of your data back to your desktop. Would it be
legal to have a
> script analyze that data, and make
"suggestions" from public sources (ie
> google maps, mapquest, etc) as to what roads you
traveled. Once you
> verified that information it could automatically upload
back into
> OpenStreetMaps (OSM)? Basically just reducing some of
the time/effort
> required to upload information into OSM.
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
|
2007-04-02 14:23:41 |
On 4/2/07, Steven ** <montgoss+openmokocommunitygmail.com> wrote:
> According to OSM's wiki
> (http://wiki.openst
reetmap.org/index.php/Getting_Involved#Recording_tracks_usin
g_a_GPS_receiver
> Step 5), it would be a copyright violation to use
Google Maps in any
> way to fill data into OSM. OSM insists in their guides
that you note
> street names while you're traveling, since looking them
up after the
> fact would constitute copyright violation.
Err... I meant Step 4.
"if you plan to later make up the roads take some notes
of the street
names etc (unless you already know them - you cannot later
get them
from (or check them on) a map as this would infringe
copyright)."
-Steven
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 14:44:35 |
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Regarding the repeated requests for google maps on the device:
YES IT IS POSSIBLE. YOU DO NOT WANT IT.
According to the terms, you aren't allowed to cache the data for further use later. This means that you have to download the images over GPRS every time you pass through an area. These images are NOT VECTOR IMAGES, meaning they are large files, and will be expensive and probably too slow if downloaded via GPRS. Unless you're on an unlimited data plan, google maps is not for you. If you are, it will not be hard to build a webpage that will provide the functionality you want using their API.
Sorry for the shouting.
-Paul
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 14:58:07 |
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Something else worth mentioning, regarding road usage, is that on a much larger scale, we could get fairly accurate road data automatically if every phone recorded where it went (unless the functionality was turned off) and just uploaded that data automatically to a server when it was near an access point. Combine large amounts of path data with velocity information, and you'd have a pretty decent set of tracks that were likely to be roads. You'd probably have a pretty accurate representation of areas where many NEO users went regularly.
It's probably too large of a project for this community in the foreseeable future, but it would be useful with enough users.
If you wanted to take it a step further, and make it more useful in the interim, you could combine speed, time, and location information to generate predictive traffic models[1]. I think this may be an extremely useful application of the phone, aside from road mapping altogether. Obviously this data would have the potential to be anonymized for anyone to be interested in participating. I've done some prototype work in this area already, analyzing gps tracks from standalone devices and averaging and overlaying the tracks over google maps (simplest way to usefully display the data) to see if the concept is useful.
-Paul
[1] Also, these tracks could be used to predict where you were likely to be going, and provide an estimate of how long it would take. This functionality would require no maps at all, or could make use of incomplete free map sets.
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 18:59:27 |
On 4/2/07, Andrew Turner <ajturnerhighearthorbit.com>
wrote:
> ...
> Right, but the bigger question is if Google wanted to
develop &
> support their GmapsMobile for OpenMoko. This will be
difficult.
I think this is a common misconception. Google Maps Mobile
runs on
Java(J2ME), so as long as the phone can support that, it
should be
able to run.
http://www.google.com/support/mobi
le/bin/answer.py?answer=39891&topic=9120
But again, as was mentioned earlier, it does not cache
tiles, and
requires GPRS connection for every use. I have Gmaps Mobile
on my
current phone, and it is a decent application if you have an
unlimited
data plan. Also AFAIK, it does not integrate with GPS at
all. I'm
not sure though because my phone does not have GPS.
- Hans Loeblich
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 19:39:46 |
I just thought of another (yes, probably unlikely)
possibility, but
maybe worth considering. A map provider could keep their
data in a
closed format and provide a closed source binary library API
for
interfacing with the data.
This way open source developers could have their own
front-end
interface, and possibly do some innovative and new things
with the
data, while keeping the data format closed and somewhat
protected.
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| Re: tomtom on the Neo1973 |
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2007-04-02 19:44:56 |
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I agree that while this is unlikely, it's the best option for all involved. You would need a software company to write that binary library though... which would probably not be a particularly profitable enterprise.
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