Board of Directors

Hi Louis,

Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> 
> On 2006-11-22, at 14:40 , Sherman Boyd wrote:
> 
>> On 11/22/06, Sherman Boyd <sherman.boydgmail.com> wrote:
>>> Who is in charge now?
>>>
>>
>> To clarify, who makes the decisions now?
> 
> I do, sort of. But in fact, for the Consultants list:
no one, really. 
> Adam adds companies to the list but we have no
criteria. I have proposed 
> some.

But this is only for the English list, I have criteria for
the French 
list, they are not added by chance. And they are not present
on this 
list because it's an English speaking list. Should speaking
English be 
also a criteria to be added to the list ?
> 
>>
>> I don't really care about the structure, whether it
is benevelent
>> dictator or a board that votes when the community
consensus isn't
>> clear.  I do care about accountability, which
doesn't seem to be a
>> feature of our current system.
> 
> Quite; I do  not disagree with you.

I completly disagree, sorry.

Kind regards
Sophie

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Sophie Gautier wrote:

> But this is only for the English list, I have criteria
for the French 
> list, they are not added by chance. And they are not
present on this 
> list because it's an English speaking list. Should
speaking English be 
> also a criteria to be added to the list ?

Could we learn something (maybe in another discussion) from
the Frensh 
criteria?

-- 

Cor Nouws
Arnhem - Netherlands
nl.OpenOffice.org - marketing contact

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Hi Sophie, all,

On 2006-11-23, at 24:43 , Sophie Gautier wrote:

> Hi Louis,
>
> Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>> On 2006-11-22, at 14:40 , Sherman Boyd wrote:
>>> On 11/22/06, Sherman Boyd <sherman.boydgmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Who is in charge now?
>>>>
>>>
>>> To clarify, who makes the decisions now?
>> I do, sort of. But in fact, for the Consultants
list: no one,  
>> really. Adam adds companies to the list but we have
no criteria. I  
>> have proposed some.
>
> But this is only for the English list, I have criteria
for the  
> French list, they are not added by chance. And they are
not present  
> on this list because it's an English speaking list.
Should speaking  
> English be also a criteria to be added to the list ?

There are, I believe, companies that offer services and
whatnot in  
languages other than English on this list.  There is no
reason that  
this list could not accommodate any language or region; that
was its  
intent, actually, at first. (Andre Schnabel and others came
up with  
the idea for it at the same time as I did and it was not
meant to be  
an English-language list.)

I'd also be happy to learn from your FR list criteria.
>>>
>>> I don't really care about the structure,
whether it is benevelent
>>> dictator or a board that votes when the
community consensus isn't
>>> clear.  I do care about accountability, which
doesn't seem to be a
>>> feature of our current system.
>> Quite; I do  not disagree with you.
>
> I completly disagree, sorry.

With? But I asked in another message.

Sophie, I get the feeling you are disagreeing with something
that I  
am not saying.  Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

>
> Kind regards
> Sophie
>
Best,
Louis


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Hi Louis, all,

Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> Hi Sophie, all,
> 
> On 2006-11-23, at 24:43 , Sophie Gautier wrote:
> 
>> Hi Louis,
>>
>> Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>>> On 2006-11-22, at 14:40 , Sherman Boyd wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/06, Sherman Boyd
<sherman.boydgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Who is in charge now?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To clarify, who makes the decisions now?
>>> I do, sort of. But in fact, for the Consultants
list: no one, really. 
>>> Adam adds companies to the list but we have no
criteria. I have 
>>> proposed some.
>>
>> But this is only for the English list, I have
criteria for the French 
>> list, they are not added by chance. And they are
not present on this 
>> list because it's an English speaking list. Should
speaking English be 
>> also a criteria to be added to the list ?
> 
> There are, I believe, companies that offer services and
whatnot in 
> languages other than English on this list.  There is no
reason that this 
> list could not accommodate any language or region; that
was its intent, 
> actually, at first. (Andre Schnabel and others came up
with the idea for 
> it at the same time as I did and it was not meant to be
an 
> English-language list.)

And I agreed with this idea at that time, but now I'm not
sure about 
having only one page, this make it very difficult to
maintain (I have 
never been able to work on it however I promised it :(
More, may be it's a French reaction only, but really seeing
a page that 
begins in English or contains English links make them turn
away.
> 
> I'd also be happy to learn from your FR list criteria.

I check every demand, go on the site they propose, ask for
the training 
catalog, ask for feed back. Last month I've done a mailing
to all these 
listed companies asking for feedback on a migration topic,
in the same 
time I've check that all were still proposing OOo services
and correctly 
mentioned.

I speak about the list that is here, not the companies that
are listed 
on the general page :
h
ttp://fr.openoffice.org/Marketing/entreprises.html
>>>>
>>>> I don't really care about the structure,
whether it is benevelent
>>>> dictator or a board that votes when the
community consensus isn't
>>>> clear.  I do care about accountability,
which doesn't seem to be a
>>>> feature of our current system.
>>> Quite; I do  not disagree with you.
>>
>> I completly disagree, sorry.
> 
> With? But I asked in another message.
> 
> Sophie, I get the feeling you are disagreeing with
something that I am 
> not saying.  Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

Sorry for being not clear. I was disagreeing with the fact
that 
"accountability which is not a feature of our current
system."

The list in the FR project is considered as a service for
our users, it 
is used and visited and these companies also give us
feedback on the 
work they do. Of course, we don't evaluate the services that
are provided.

For example for this project we have :
http
://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MutuOOo
This page collects a list of applications dedicated to
Townhall 
services, the idea behind it is to make them run with OOo.
Here the 
feedback from companies working on OOo migration is of great
help to 
collect the datas.

This is this part of collaboration between this listed
companies and our 
project that I would like to be considered.
Again I'm not against a fee, but my concern is more about
equity between 
those who are participating and those who don't care.

Hope my position is more clear now
Kind regards
Sophie

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Hi Sophie, all,

On 2006-11-24, at 04:09 , Sophie Gautier wrote:

> Hi Louis, all,
>
> Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>> Hi Sophie, all,
>> On 2006-11-23, at 24:43 , Sophie Gautier wrote:
>>> Hi Louis,
>>>
>>> Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>>>> On 2006-11-22, at 14:40 , Sherman Boyd
wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/06, Sherman Boyd
<sherman.boydgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Who is in charge now?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To clarify, who makes the decisions
now?
>>>> I do, sort of. But in fact, for the
Consultants list: no one,  
>>>> really. Adam adds companies to the list but
we have no criteria.  
>>>> I have proposed some.
>>>
>>> But this is only for the English list, I have
criteria for the  
>>> French list, they are not added by chance. And
they are not  
>>> present on this list because it's an English
speaking list.  
>>> Should speaking English be also a criteria to
be added to the list ?
>> There are, I believe, companies that offer services
and whatnot in  
>> languages other than English on this list.  There
is no reason  
>> that this list could not accommodate any language
or region; that  
>> was its intent, actually, at first. (Andre Schnabel
and others  
>> came up with the idea for it at the same time as I
did and it was  
>> not meant to be an English-language list.)
>
> And I agreed with this idea at that time, but now I'm
not sure  
> about having only one page, this make it very difficult
to maintain  
> (I have never been able to work on it however I
promised it :(
> More, may be it's a French reaction only, but really
seeing a page  
> that begins in English or contains English links make
them turn away.


Ah!.... *now* I see.


What would you propose?  I would suggest, if feasible, a
page that  
can change the headings into the appropriate user's
language. It's  
the usual story. French speaking person comes in and sees
headings in  
French. And so on.  Even the page heading could change.

  My interest is in having one spot, one policy, and
minimizing extra  
work.




>> I'd also be happy to learn from your FR list
criteria.
>
> I check every demand, go on the site they propose, ask
for the  
> training catalog, ask for feed back. Last month I've
done a mailing  
> to all these listed companies asking for feedback on a
migration  
> topic, in the same time I've check that all were still
proposing  
> OOo services and correctly mentioned.
>
> I speak about the list that is here, not the companies
that are  
> listed on the general page :
> h
ttp://fr.openoffice.org/Marketing/entreprises.html


I think that we would use such a system to check, but might
also ask  
that people on this list help. For instance, I used to check
each and  
every request for using the OOo logo as you do above. But
after about  
4 years of this it became too much.  Similarly, when I
managed the  
CDROM page, I'd check them all out. But again, too much,
especially  
as sites can change (one famous one: went from distributing
free  
software to free pornography).  Right now there is a more or
less  
imperfect but usable mechanism of self-policing (as it were)
on the  
CDROM list.  At some point one does have to trust.

But when we are also listing for free those who are doing
good works  
for OOo, then we have to evaluate their good works and not
take their  
word for it.


>>>>>
>>>>> I don't really care about the
structure, whether it is benevelent
>>>>> dictator or a board that votes when the
community consensus isn't
>>>>> clear.  I do care about accountability,
which doesn't seem to be a
>>>>> feature of our current system.
>>>> Quite; I do  not disagree with you.
>>>
>>> I completly disagree, sorry.
>> With? But I asked in another message.
>> Sophie, I get the feeling you are disagreeing with
something that  
>> I am not saying.  Would you be so kind as to
elaborate?
>
> Sorry for being not clear. I was disagreeing with the
fact that  
> "accountability which is not a feature of our
current system."

Ah. I think the point he was making was that this list on
Bizdev is  
essentially opaque, at least in terms of how a listing was
put there.  
And if we charge, we obviously need to be accountable. I was
agreeing  
that we need to be accountable.
>
> The list in the FR project is considered as a service
for our  
> users, it is used and visited and these companies also
give us  
> feedback on the work they do. Of course, we don't
evaluate the  
> services that are provided.

Right.

>
> For example for this project we have :
> http
://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MutuOOo
> This page collects a list of applications dedicated to
Townhall  
> services, the idea behind it is to make them run with
OOo. Here the  
> feedback from companies working on OOo migration is of
great help  
> to collect the datas.
>
> This is this part of collaboration between this listed
companies  
> and our project that I would like to be considered.
> Again I'm not against a fee, but my concern is more
about equity  
> between those who are participating and those who don't
care.

I quite agree: there has to be equity that is just. That is
why we do  
need for those whom we would list for free to evaluate that
what they  
are doing really justifies our gift.
>
> Hope my position is more clear now
> Kind regards
> Sophie

Best,
louis

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