Hi Leonard,
Leonard Mada wrote:
> Ingrid Halama wrote:
>> Maybe you are not aware that the Chart offers an
UNO API (see
>> ::om::sun::star::chart )? You can access this API
via OpenOffice.org
>> Basic macros for example and thus automate tasks
(see
>> http://api.openoffice.org/docs/DevelopersGuide
/DevelopersGuide.pdf for
>> more details).
>>> -- only a limited number of programmers can
do this
>> This is always the case. Having a scripting
language people need to
>> learn that first also. And they need to be willing
to share their
>> results and they need to be able to share their
results. So providing
>> a scripting language does not heal all problems.
>
> e.g. Can I build with the UNO API in a number of
minutes a Venn diagram?
> ... or some other custom plot?
> I am afraid, this is NOT the case.
You cannot do this because the basic functionality for this
chart type
is missing and not because of missing scripting support.
If you are willing to write a script that takes some data
from somewhere
and generates some special drawing shapes dependent on that
data - go
ahead. You are free to do this. Use the Calc UNO API to get
the data for
example and use the Draw UNO API to generate the visual
output. Than
others can use your script to create a Venn diagram in a
five minute action.
So what are you expecting from the chart? Do you want to be
able to
change more aspects of the existing chart types? If so,
which? Or do you
want to be able to write completely new chart types? If so,
do you want
to implement a new coordinate system with new axis also? Or
would you be
fine with having some standard coordinate systems or maybe
just the 2D
cartesian coordinate system provided by the chart? Would you
like to
implement a time axis by yourself? Or do you think that this
is a basic
functionality that should be provided by the OpenOffice
Chart? Would you
be fine having the possibility to place pixels or lines or
boxes in a 2D
diagram parameterized by logic coordinates with a macro or
an extension?
Would you like to be able to select a script that is
associated with a
chart and executed on each new chart rendering (for example
when the
size changes)? Are you missing this most hardly?
> - as I mentioned, there are over 500 packages available
for R (mostly
> developed by independent groups using the R-language)
> - gnuplot:: there are 649,997 downloads only from
> http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_searc
h=soft&words=gnuplot
> - asymptote: 23,631 downloads, see
> http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_sea
rch=soft&words=asymptote
> -- this is quite a powerful descriptive vector
graphics language for
> technical drawing, I highly recommend to take a look at
it
>
Yes, sure, there are more specialized programs that offer
more.
Again I would like to know what you expect from
OpenOffice.org Chart
when you are fine with the already existing specialized
software? What
are you missing with that highly specialized software?
> All these programs have simple drawing commands, like
plot() or draw()
> and I do not need to learn complex UNO APIs.
> - I can sit down and write in 5 minutes a script that
will solve a
> particular problem, e.g. draw a very unusual graphic/
chart
Maybe it's because you know this scripting language already.
I doubt
that all people will only need 5 minutes for that.
> - and do not need to ask OOo to implement that
particular type of Chart
> - the (mathematical, statistical) professionals will
continue to use
> these programs, so why not *win their help* for OOo
> - and let *them* write new /extend existing features
As said above, you can generate your own visual output as
you like with
the UNO API of the Draw. So the question remains which kind
of
integration you want with the existing Chart.
>
>>> -- it takes eons to implement a new feature
>> Be fair. This highly depends on the feature itself,
on the current
>> state of the affected code and on the availability
of resources.
>
> I see features pending for years. What chance has a
very fancy feature
> to be implemented? It usually gets a WONTFIX. There are
even popular
> requests not implemented yet.
>
> Having the users writing their scripts also avoids the
need for
> resources. BUT, for this to work, the scripting must be
plain easy and
> familiar. I believe plot() is easier to understand than
> ::com::sun::star::chart.
>
> Everything is about the choice. I currently have no
choice but to learn
> the (quite limited) UNO APIs. If a scripting engine
would be implemented
> like that in gnuplot, R, or asymptote (which are by the
ways very
> similar), I do have choices. And chances are great that
many will know
> already a lot of those languages. I have added on the
chart wiki page a
> great number of chart-types (please follow the links
there, see
> http:
//wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Chart2): these
charts were all
> done in R, and most did not require implementing a
fancy new feature in
> R, but were rather done using existing R-scripting (as
an R package).
>
So you are asking for implementing the R scripting language
for
OpenOffice Chart? Thus all who know R can easily switch. Hm.
Interesting
idea. Maybe you want to help with considering the problems
and
possibilities, working out the details and implementing
that? Any
volunteers?
>> Please provide more specific use cases. I asume you
don't want just a
>> clone of R or gnuplot, otherwise you just could use
them. So it's hard
>> to estimate what you are asking for.
>
> I do use R-extensively. I have some limited knowledge
of gnuplot, too.
> What I miss is the ability to code easily my own type
of chart. IF it is
> not present in Chart, I do not have any possibility to
make it.
That is not true. See above.
> In R
> (and asymptote), I would have simply written some
plot() directives and
> created my custom chart type. (for R actually I
probably would have
> searched an existing package, chances are high that the
work has already
> been done).
>
> It is also much about resources. Why reinvent the
wheel? Sometimes we
> may need a square wheel, but most of the time the time
proven round
> wheel will be far superior. Some of the languages
mentioned are mature
> and very robust.
>
> The main issue is, that without such effective drawing
directives, the
> OOo team is stuck *to implement any requested feature*
on its own, while
> following my suggestion, this work would be largely
done by the users
> themselves (and other professionals not necessarily
affiliated with OOo).
>
Yes. But first there is effort to offer those possibilites!
They have to
be defined very carefully and checked for consistence with
the existing
feature set. Again, are there any volunteers?
> I hope that the developers take a careful look at this
more global
> approach. Having the developers split on thousands of
open source
> projects and copying a feature from one product to the
next won't help
> the open source community.
>
But aren't you requesting exactly that? OpenOffice Chart
should
implement the R scripting language?
Kind Regards,
Ingrid
> Sincerely,
>
> Leonard Mada
>
>
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