Dear Writer Developers!

Oliver Specht - Sun Germany -Hamburg írta:
> KAMI wrote:
>> Oliver Specht írta:
>>> KAMI wrote:
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to ask this. This order depends
on:
>>>> * language of document
>>>> * language of UI
>>>> or what? I planned to depend on language of
the document because 
>>>> Hungarian users might want to create
documents in other languages. 
>>>> Is it possibel? Is it the best solution?
>>> The default is value depends on the UI
langauge. You can always 
>>> change the setting if you want it in the
opposite order. Depending 
>>> on the language doesn't work because the
document has three 
>>> languages (Western, CJK and CTL).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Oliver
>>>
>>>
>> I am thinking about this and I would like to know
if any CJK and CTL 
>> language has this issue with the captions. If not,
we are simply 
>> check only the western language, aren't we?
>>
> Hi,
> you're right. The question is how to find out if _any_
(supported) 
> CJK/CTL language cares for the order.
>
> Please keep in mind that if we introduce an automatic
order selection 
> then people who want to change the order cannot do this
anymore.
>
> Regards,
> Oliver
>
Hello!

I think this option must be user configurable, but the
default should 
set based on language of document...

Some weakness of preselected defaults -
* UI based selection:
I wrote a Hungarian document under Hungarian language UI. I
sent the 
document to my friend. He use English UI. He insert more
Hungarian text 
and elements with caption. What caption will he insert?
* Document language based selection:
My friend wrote a Document in Hungarian. He sent it to me. I
edit it, 
and if I doesn't change the language of document everything
works well.

Of course we might drop the automatic caption style
formatting. So 
Hungarian users have to set captions for every Hungarian
documents.


These are my thoughts...

I am to be concerned what is your opinion.

KAMI

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Hi!

Finnish language is not affected. Hmm only the Hungarian
language is so 
special? :oD

KAMI


Oliver Specht - Sun Germany -Hamburg írta:
> Hi,
> KAMI wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> Thank you for working on this problem. I planned to
select the 
>> caption formatting based on the language of
document. But we found 
>> this issue: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=81588
>> Is this issue has any relation to 61007?
> No, it doesn't. Except for the fact that a language
dependent 
> AutoCaption also suffers from the triple language
problem. Which of 
> the three (Western, Asian, CTL) locales should be
used?
>
> BTW: Your initial spec mentioned a feature to change
the formatting of 
> existing captions when changing the option setting.
This is not easily 
> possible because captions are just simple text.
>
> Regards,
>
> Oliver
>
>
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Also Estonian language is not affected...

KAMI



KAMI írta:
> Hi!
>
> Finnish language is not affected. Hmm only the
Hungarian language is 
> so special? :oD
>
> KAMI
>
>
> Oliver Specht - Sun Germany -Hamburg írta:
>> Hi,
>> KAMI wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Thank you for working on this problem. I
planned to select the 
>>> caption formatting based on the language of
document. But we found 
>>> this issue: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=81588
>>> Is this issue has any relation to 61007?
>> No, it doesn't. Except for the fact that a language
dependent 
>> AutoCaption also suffers from the triple language
problem. Which of 
>> the three (Western, Asian, CTL) locales should be
used?
>>
>> BTW: Your initial spec mentioned a feature to
change the formatting 
>> of existing captions when changing the option
setting. This is not 
>> easily possible because captions are just simple
text.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Oliver
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Hi,
KAMI wrote:
> Oliver Specht - Sun Germany -Hamburg írta:
>> KAMI wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I think this option must be user configurable, but the
default should 
> set based on language of document...
Or the language of the current paragraph?
> 
> Some weakness of preselected defaults -
> * UI based selection:
> I wrote a Hungarian document under Hungarian language
UI. I sent the 
> document to my friend. He use English UI. He insert
more Hungarian text 
> and elements with caption. What caption will he
insert?
As long as he doesn't change his setting it will be in the
wrong order. 
But it can be changed easily - if he has the current version
of OOo.
> * Document language based selection:
> My friend wrote a Document in Hungarian. He sent it to
me. I edit it, 
> and if I doesn't change the language of document
everything works well.
We talk about a UI based selection. Document language has no
influence.
> 
> Of course we might drop the automatic caption style
formatting. So 
> Hungarian users have to set captions for every
Hungarian documents.
I don't think so.

The typical problem of an automatic insertion is that a lot
of users 
don't understand how it works. They would create a document
that is for 
some reasons in the wrong language. Maybe a Hungarian user
downloads an 
English template or vice versa. No he uses this document and
all 
captions are in the wrong order because of the language. The
typical 
user will change each inserted caption manually instead of
just changing 
the document language. Things like that actually happen
every day.

Regards,

Oliver

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Oliver Specht - Sun Germany -Hamburg írta:
> Hi,
> KAMI wrote:
>> Oliver Specht - Sun Germany -Hamburg írta:
>>> KAMI wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> I think this option must be user configurable, but
the default should 
>> set based on language of document...
> Or the language of the current paragraph?

>>
>> Some weakness of preselected defaults -
>> * UI based selection:
>> I wrote a Hungarian document under Hungarian
language UI. I sent the 
>> document to my friend. He use English UI. He insert
more Hungarian 
>> text and elements with caption. What caption will
he insert?
> As long as he doesn't change his setting it will be in
the wrong 
> order. But it can be changed easily - if he has the
current version of 
> OOo.
>> * Document language based selection:
>> My friend wrote a Document in Hungarian. He sent it
to me. I edit it, 
>> and if I doesn't change the language of document
everything works well.
> We talk about a UI based selection. Document language
has no influence.
>>
>> Of course we might drop the automatic caption style
formatting. So 
>> Hungarian users have to set captions for every
Hungarian documents.
> I don't think so.
>
> The typical problem of an automatic insertion is that a
lot of users 
> don't understand how it works. They would create a
document that is 
> for some reasons in the wrong language. Maybe a
Hungarian user 
> downloads an English template or vice versa. No he uses
this document 
> and all captions are in the wrong order because of the
language. The 
> typical user will change each inserted caption manually
instead of 
> just changing the document language. Things like that
actually happen 
> every day.
Ok I see what is the point. Lets do it  Can I help
the development? 
For example with QA or other things?
>
> Regards,
>
> Oliver
>

KAMI

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Hi Cor!
 
Our language is very different from our region....
 
KAMI

>>> Cor Nouws <oolstnouenoff.nl> 10/09/07
8:50 du. >>>
Hi Kami,

KAMI wrote on 09-10-07 19:54:

> Finnish language is not affected. Hmm only the
Hungarian language is
so 
> special? :oD

Well. I've seen your questions to reply if 'my' language has
the same 
need. So I didn't.
Maybe that languages in your region are the same in this
aspect, but
the 
ones I know are not.

Kindest regards,
Cor



-- 

Cor Nouws
Arnhem - Netherlands
nl.OpenOffice.org - marketing contact

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