Re: Name Changes...

bkml wrote:
> On Feb 24, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Ming-Wei Shih wrote:
>
>   
>>> Do you mean to suggest you can just ignore the
law because of an
>>> online poll? I presume that would be rather
naive.
>>>
>>>       
>> Since when is this breaking the law outside those
countries?  
>> Openpbx is
>> legal to use in a lot more countries than illegal
countries.
>>     
>
> The only countries where the name is safe to use are
the US and Canada.
>   
And the only country that this maybe "not safe" is
.au
>
>   
>> Democracy is about to respect the opinion
>> of  the majority and not about the individuals.
>>     
>
> Democracy is first and foremost about the principle
that nobody is  
> above the law, that no majority can impose lawlessness
upon any  
> minority.
>
>   
Hehe, laws are made by men, you have such a weird way of
trying to turn 
everything to
the way you wanted.

Democracy comes from Greek, people rule. Respect the
majority, and the 
majority makes
the law.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for a name change, I would like
a name that 
is safe to use
everywhere, but we just need to stay open on every aspect of
this 
project, something that you
seem not agree on because you start making irresponsible
comments and 
accusing
suggestion/insinuations when an open question is asked.

>> And please don't PUT words if my mouth, did I
suggested anything? I
>> merely said that the "yes" voters should
be more convincing.
>>     
>
> Perhaps you should read more carefully. I suggested it
would be  
> rather naive to assume that an online poll has any
weight when it  
> comes to legal matters.
>   

Maybe you should stop putting words in other's mouth and
stop being so 
pushy. And please
learn how to snip a email, you have cut off the paragraph
where you put 
words in my mouth
and insinuated that I suggested something, this is really
unacceptable.

If you tell me to read more carefully why do you delete this
specific 
paragraph?

You left out this, quote: "
Do you mean to suggest you can just ignore the law because
of an
online poll? I presume that would be rather naive.
"

One good advise from me Ben, don't play with people's mind,
don't try to 
manipulate the
crowd.

And as I said last time, if you don't want this to be an
open process, 
please go troll
else where.

xming
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I don't know where this came from, but Open != Democracy. 
Open means people
who don't like something are free to do as WE did with
Asterisk, which of
course means that Asterisk was Open source too...  that was
definitely not a
democracy.  When you're up for trademark infringement make
sure you let them
know you took a vote and it was voted to keep the name, I'm
sure they'll
understand.

Seriously, this chain is degrading... the name has to
change.  If the main
programmers and those who organized the project want to let
people vote on
what name to use... then great, if not.... great.  I just
want it to end up
with a decent name.... IMO the most important part is that
it's easy to say
and remember.   I think both Aperio and CallWeaver fit those
categories.

I apologize if this comes across as a flame/troll... I just
want this thread
to go away, but that needed to be said.

-----Original Message-----
From: openpbx-dev-bouncesopenpbx.org
[mailto:openpbx-dev-bouncesopenpbx.org] On Behalf Of
Ming-Wei Shih
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:49 AM
To: OpenPBX.org Developers Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Openpbx-dev] Name Changes...

bkml wrote:
> On Feb 24, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Ming-Wei Shih wrote:
>
>   
>>> Do you mean to suggest you can just ignore the
law because of an
>>> online poll? I presume that would be rather
naive.
>>>
>>>       
>> Since when is this breaking the law outside those
countries?  
>> Openpbx is
>> legal to use in a lot more countries than illegal
countries.
>>     
>
> The only countries where the name is safe to use are
the US and Canada.
>   
And the only country that this maybe "not safe" is
.au
>
>   
>> Democracy is about to respect the opinion
>> of  the majority and not about the individuals.
>>     
>
> Democracy is first and foremost about the principle
that nobody is  
> above the law, that no majority can impose lawlessness
upon any  
> minority.
>
>   
Hehe, laws are made by men, you have such a weird way of
trying to turn 
everything to
the way you wanted.

Democracy comes from Greek, people rule. Respect the
majority, and the 
majority makes
the law.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for a name change, I would like
a name that 
is safe to use
everywhere, but we just need to stay open on every aspect of
this 
project, something that you
seem not agree on because you start making irresponsible
comments and 
accusing
suggestion/insinuations when an open question is asked.

>> And please don't PUT words if my mouth, did I
suggested anything? I
>> merely said that the "yes" voters should
be more convincing.
>>     
>
> Perhaps you should read more carefully. I suggested it
would be  
> rather naive to assume that an online poll has any
weight when it  
> comes to legal matters.
>   

Maybe you should stop putting words in other's mouth and
stop being so 
pushy. And please
learn how to snip a email, you have cut off the paragraph
where you put 
words in my mouth
and insinuated that I suggested something, this is really
unacceptable.

If you tell me to read more carefully why do you delete this
specific 
paragraph?

You left out this, quote: "
Do you mean to suggest you can just ignore the law because
of an
online poll? I presume that would be rather naive.
"

One good advise from me Ben, don't play with people's mind,
don't try to 
manipulate the
crowd.

And as I said last time, if you don't want this to be an
open process, 
please go troll
else where.

xming
_______________________________________________
Openpbx-dev mailing list
Openpbx-devopenpbx.org
http://lists.openpbx.org/mailman/listinfo/openpbx-dev

_______________________________________________
Openpbx-dev mailing list
Openpbx-devopenpbx.org
http://lists.openpbx.org/mailman/listinfo/openpbx-dev

On Feb 24, 2007, at 8:49 PM, Ming-Wei Shih wrote:

>> The only countries where the name is safe to use
are the US and  
>> Canada.
>>
> And the only country that this maybe "not
safe" is .au

And how would you possibly know unless you paid a lawyer
which if you  
did you wouldn't have made that statement.

> don't play with people's mind, don't try to manipulate
the crowd.

Funny you should say that because you are the one who is  
inadvertently manipulating people into a false sense of
security. You  
are not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal
advice, yet you  
suggest that the name OpenPBX is safe to use outside of the
US and  
Canada. Now, I am not qualified to give legal advice myself
and  
because of that I always go an get legal advice from legal 

professionals who are qualified to do so. I did so in this
case and  
that is how I know that the name is not safe for use where
VT have  
been consistently selling their products, not just
Australia. But  
don't take my word for it, pay a lawyer to give you an
assessment and  
find out for yourself. On the other hand, if you are not
willing to  
spend money on professional legal advice, then I suggest you
refrain  
from making statements about the legality of using the
OpenPBX name.

Besides, your logic is flawed: You say that there are more
countries  
where it is safe to use the name than there are where it is
not, but  
what gives you or anybody else the right to say that
contributors and  
promoters in those countries are not worthy of protection
and should  
be left in legal limbo? What if next time, there is a poll
that  
leaves you in a minority position on an essential issue that
deserves  
minority protection? Not having to worry about legal
implications is  
something that should be extended to every
contributor/promoter, no  
matter how small the number.

> And as I said last time, if you don't want this to be
an open process,

What I challenge here is the misguided belief that the
keeping the  
name should be an option.

rgds
benjk
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