Different measures? (Sun-provided specs vs community-specs or: what do we have a process and templat

Hi *,

as the subject indicates, this is a rant about the
specification
process/how it is handled from Sun-side.

I'm refering to
http://specs.openoffice.org/appwide/onlineup
date/Software_Update.odt
as a recent example, but there are enough older ones that
don't match
the guidelines.

What I miss is:
* TaskID
* How are languages/language packs handled.

Who decides/sets a version as "available", what
if a user has an english
base version with a french language-pack. What version is
checked in
this case? What if there's a new english version, but no
french version
yet? Are language-packs taken into accout at all?

From the AllLanguages mentioned in the spec, language-packs
are
ignored. (either that or AllLanguages doesn't work as it
should) So a
user using a hebrew language pack will be offered an update
for the
english base-version without there being a corresponding
updated
hebrew-language pack?

Thus important information is missing and thus questions the
sense of
this spec.

You define the UI in detail, without elaborating on the
background-problems. Just to add a menu entry you don't
need a spec
process.

While I do not question the proposed/added feature itself,
it is the
spec that I don't like. Trying to push the spec-process
within the
community is not supported by issueing specification
documents that do
not adhere to the guidelines that the community is asked to
follow.

(Having it formatted by empty paragraphs doesn't improve
the impression
either)

ciao
Christian
-- 
NP: Downset - Downset

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Hi Christian,

thanks for reviewing the spec.

> as the subject indicates, this is a rant about the
specification
> process/how it is handled from Sun-side.
> 
> I'm refering to
> http://specs.openoffice.org/appwide/onlineup
date/Software_Update.odt
> as a recent example, but there are enough older ones
that don't match
> the guidelines.
> 
> What I miss is:
> * TaskID
The issue is #i64103#
I guess it will be added to one of the versions of the spec.

> * How are languages/language packs handled.
[...]

[...]

> Thus important information is missing and thus
questions the sense of
> this spec.
> 
> You define the UI in detail, without elaborating on the
> background-problems. Just to add a menu entry you
don't need a spec
> process.
> 
> While I do not question the proposed/added feature
itself, it is the
> spec that I don't like. Trying to push the
spec-process within the
> community is not supported by issueing specification
documents that do
> not adhere to the guidelines that the community is
asked to follow.

Be convinced that there is no intend to have different
classes of specs.
I would be happy if we all come to a reasonable use of specs
And as we see with this example a spec and its review help
to unveil 
situations that one has not thought of. Sun community
members are humans 
too 

Again, thanks for reading the spec and pointing out that
langauge packs 
are not covered. Let's move the discussion about the
feature to the 
project where it's implemented:
  devframework.openoffice.org.
You are welcome to join the team working on the feature.

Greetings
Stefan

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Hi Stefan, *,

On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 04:38:46PM +0200, Stefan Taxhet
wrote:
> >[...]
> >http://specs.openoffice.org/appwide/onlineup
date/Software_Update.odt
> >[...]
> >What I miss is:
> >* TaskID
> The issue is #i64103#
> I guess it will be added to one of the versions of the
spec.

Well, the spec is marked "final" with the very
first revision.

> [...]
> Again, thanks for reading the spec and pointing out
that langauge packs 
> are not covered. Let's move the discussion about the
feature to the 
> project where it's implemented:
>  devframework.openoffice.org.
> You are welcome to join the team working on the
feature.

OK. Thanks for the answer & forward.

ciao
Christian
-- 
NP: Blind Guardian - Imaginations From The Other Side

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Hi Stefan,
Stefan Taxhet wrote:
> Hi Christian,
> 
> thanks for reviewing the spec.
> 
>> as the subject indicates, this is a rant about the
specification
>> process/how it is handled from Sun-side.
>>
>> I'm refering to
>> http://specs.openoffice.org/appwide/onlineup
date/Software_Update.odt
>> as a recent example, but there are enough older
ones that don't match
>> the guidelines.
>>
>> What I miss is:
>> * TaskID
> The issue is #i64103#
> I guess it will be added to one of the versions of the
spec.

If you look a the time it has been filled in IZ and the time
it has been
fixed, no way for us to even have finished to read the specs
in this 
time frame 
And by the way, there is also something strange with the
properties of
this document: it has been created in 2004 and revised 788
times 

In a more general way it would be really great if we have
some time to 
read the specs before it become final, some of them are even
upload on 
the site after the issue is closed.

[...]

> 
> Be convinced that there is no intend to have different
classes of specs.
> I would be happy if we all come to a reasonable use of
specs
> And as we see with this example a spec and its review
help to unveil 
> situations that one has not thought of. Sun community
members are humans 
> too 

I think we all understand this and this is why we need to
have chance to 
give our feedback too 

Kind regards
Sophie

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Hi,

Sophie Gautier wrote:
> Stefan Taxhet wrote:
[...]
> If you look a the time it has been filled in IZ and the
time it has been
> fixed, no way for us to even have finished to read the
specs in this 
> time frame 

Even with the "more frequent feature release
model" used nowadays we see 
these rushes just before the UI freeze. I think we all would
benefit 
from a bit more time for review of the spec and
implementation.
OTH I'm very happy that we will see this feature in 2.0.3.
Let's see how 
we can improve it from there...

> And by the way, there is also something strange with
the properties of
> this document: it has been created in 2004 and revised
788 times 

and edited 77 hours 

I guess this document is based on a spec document written
earlier which 
was based on a ...

Greetings
Stefan

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Hi Stefan,
Stefan Taxhet wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Sophie Gautier wrote:
>> Stefan Taxhet wrote:
> [...]
>> If you look a the time it has been filled in IZ and
the time it has been
>> fixed, no way for us to even have finished to read
the specs in this 
>> time frame 
> 
> Even with the "more frequent feature release
model" used nowadays we see 
> these rushes just before the UI freeze. I think we all
would benefit 
> from a bit more time for review of the spec and
implementation.
> OTH I'm very happy that we will see this feature in
2.0.3. Let's see how 
> we can improve it from there...

Yes, it was also in my mind and I agree it's good to see
this "more 
frequent release model" in place.
> 
>> And by the way, there is also something strange
with the properties of
>> this document: it has been created in 2004 and
revised 788 times 
> 
> and edited 77 hours 

just to point what could be read  too 
> 
> I guess this document is based on a spec document
written earlier which 
> was based on a ...

... ;)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Hi

> In a more general way it would be really great if we
have some time to 
> read the specs before it become final, some of them are
even upload on 
> the site after the issue is closed.
>

Would it be possible to post the link to a new spec on the
related dev 
list ?

So every reader interrested in a particular aspect of OOo
(writer, calc, 
framework, api ...) is aware that a spec is started in his
field and 
that he can comment and participate to it

Gathering them in the "specs" project is
important too but this may ease 
the early review process

Laurent
-- 
Laurent Godard <lgodardindesko.com> -
Ingénierie OpenOffice.org
Indesko >> http://www.indesko.com
Nuxeo CPS >> http://www.nuxeo.com - http://www.cps-project.org

Livre "Programmation OpenOffice.org", Eyrolles
2004

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