Orca "HTML-Container" is driving me crazy!

Hi,
why does Orca always report "HTML-Container"? It
happens again and again 
when scrolling a webpage.
It seems as if this happens when I enter a new portion of
the page, perhaps 
a paragraph.
Is this really necessary, and is there a way to turn it off?
Btw.: Why does Orca repeat links and their context several
times, partially 
with a low voice? That low voice indicates a link, but this
should be 
sufficient information, why that redundancy?
Regards
Hermann
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Hi Hermann:

In short, the answer to your questions is that we obviously
do not want
the user experience you are currently getting.  Getting to
the desired
user experience is going to be a long road.  

The accessibility implementation inside Firefox 3 is being
completely
rewritten, and it is being done in a way such that its model
is
different from what we get from other toolkits, such as
GTK+, Open
Office, and Java.  The net result of this is that the
'default' script
for Orca that works well with GTK+, OOo, and Java doesn't
always work so
well with Firefox and we need to start from scratch a lot of
the time.
There's no major blame here - some of the differences are
due to the
drastic differences between web content and standard GUI
content.

In addition, caret navigation in Firefox 3 is woefully
inadequate and
the Firefox team has no plans to fix it.  I've been trying
to get them
to fix it since Firefox 2.  Believe me, I've tried.  I'm
also still
trying.  The result of their ability to provide a good
navigation
experience is that we need to write our own navigation code
in Orca.
This is a complex undertaking and is what is consuming well
over 90% of
the time we spend on Firefox.  While I am a bit disconcerted
by this,
the Firefox team is indeed still spending their time on
other areas for
accessibility, and we need to be thankful for that.

Finally, the geographic distance between the Orca and
Firefox teams is
rather large (US and China) - this makes interactive
communication
difficult, especially when it comes to needing fast turn
around on bugs
in the accessibility implementation in Firefox.

Having said all that, both teams are committed and we are
taking one
step at a time.  

Will

On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 17:58 +0100, Hermann wrote:
> Hi,
> why does Orca always report "HTML-Container"?
It happens again and again 
> when scrolling a webpage.
> It seems as if this happens when I enter a new portion
of the page, perhaps 
> a paragraph.
> Is this really necessary, and is there a way to turn it
off?
> Btw.: Why does Orca repeat links and their context
several times, partially 
> with a low voice? That low voice indicates a link, but
this should be 
> sufficient information, why that redundancy?
> Regards
> Hermann
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

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Hi Will,
OK, I realize that making Firefox accessible is a project of
its own.
But one additional question: Do you know the browser
Seamonkey?
There's a file in the download section containing the string
"gtk+",
which seems to indicate that it is accessible.
However: I cannot start it. Running the shell script returns
that
there's no libgtk-1.2... (something like that).
Is there a chance?
Regards
Hermann


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Hi Hermann:

I'm not sure, but it seems as though the SeaMonkey browser
is based on
the same code as Firefox, so we'd have the same work to do. 
:-(

Will

On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 19:01 +0100, hermann wrote:
> Hi Will,
> OK, I realize that making Firefox accessible is a
project of its own.
> But one additional question: Do you know the browser
Seamonkey?
> There's a file in the download section containing the
string "gtk+",
> which seems to indicate that it is accessible.
> However: I cannot start it. Running the shell script
returns that
> there's no libgtk-1.2... (something like that).
> Is there a chance?
> Regards
> Hermann
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

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Hi.

It sounds like this is a gtk 1.x app instead of a gtk 2.x
app.  If so,
you won't get access to it since gtk 1.x has no support for
accessibility.

          Kenny

On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 07:01:15PM +0100, hermann wrote:
> Hi Will,
> OK, I realize that making Firefox accessible is a
project of its own.
> But one additional question: Do you know the browser
Seamonkey?
> There's a file in the download section containing the
string "gtk+",
> which seems to indicate that it is accessible.
> However: I cannot start it. Running the shell script
returns that
> there's no libgtk-1.2... (something like that).
> Is there a chance?
> Regards
> Hermann
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Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

Kenny Hitt wrote:

> It sounds like this is a gtk 1.x app instead of a gtk
2.x app.  If so,
> you won't get access to it since gtk 1.x has no support
for
> accessibility.

I asked in the #seamonkey channel on irc.mozilla.org and
they told me
that they have builds for both GTK 1.x and GTK 2.x, but that
GTK 2.x is
the default. So this shouldn't be a problem.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

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Hi,
I checked the Seamonkey downloads and, indeed, found that
there are only 
programs for gtk1. I couldn't find downloads for gtk2.
Regards
Hermann
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Hermann reported:

> I checked the Seamonkey downloads and, indeed, found
that there are only 
> programs for gtk1. I couldn't find downloads for gtk2.

Okay, confusingly enough, GTK2 is the default so GTK2 builds
are not
labelled as such. Linux builds without "GTK1" in
the link text are
actually GTK2 builds. So for example the Linux builds
entitled "tar.gz
format" rather than "GTK1 tar.gz format" are
in fact GTK2 builds.
Likewise the Linux "Full Installer" and Linux
"Net Installer" are GTK2
builds.

This is true for the current release page:

h
ttp://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/releases/

and the beta version page:

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/releases/1
.1b.html

At some point GTK1 is apparently likely to cease to be
supported
altogether.

I've pointed the #seamonkey channel to this thread as
evidence of the
confusion caused by not labelling the GTK2 builds.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

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Hi,
I checked the Seamonkey downloads and, indeed, found that
there are only 
programs for gtk1. I couldn't find downloads for gtk2.
Regards
Hermann
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Hi All:

I'm curious what the HTML rendering engine is in SeaMonkey. 
If it's
Gecko, then it's the same thing as Firefox, meaning you're
likely to get
the same exact user experience when using Orca.

I'm still hammering away at the Gecko stuff, and had some
decent
progress yesterday -- I check things into GNOME CVS HEAD
early and
often, and you can always see what's going on by looking at
the
ChangeLog.  

In addition, Ginn Chen from the Firefox team and I have also
been
communicating.  I'm feeling pretty good about us being able
to make a
lot of progress soon.

Will

On Fri, 2006-12-22 at 09:58 +0000, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
wrote:
> Hermann reported:
> 
> > I checked the Seamonkey downloads and, indeed,
found that there are only 
> > programs for gtk1. I couldn't find downloads for
gtk2.
> 
> Okay, confusingly enough, GTK2 is the default so GTK2
builds are not
> labelled as such. Linux builds without "GTK1"
in the link text are
> actually GTK2 builds. So for example the Linux builds
entitled "tar.gz
> format" rather than "GTK1 tar.gz format"
are in fact GTK2 builds.
> Likewise the Linux "Full Installer" and Linux
"Net Installer" are GTK2
> builds.
> 
> This is true for the current release page:
> 
> h
ttp://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/releases/
> 
> and the beta version page:
> 
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/releases/1
.1b.html
> 
> At some point GTK1 is apparently likely to cease to be
supported
> altogether.
> 
> I've pointed the #seamonkey channel to this thread as
evidence of the
> confusion caused by not labelling the GTK2 builds.
> 
> --
> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

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