Developing GTK applications (in Python) as a blind developer

Hi.

I need to write myself a bit of GTK code in Python.
I am blind, so I am going to use the finally resulting app
via Orca.
The problem I seem to have is that most (or all?) good
examples on how to develop a GTK app suggest to use Glade.
While the glade description file is text, and in theory
could be
edited by hand, it seems like too complicated to do.  But
the glade-editor frontend is not really accessible to me.
How do other blind developer deal with this?
I see orca uses glade as well.  Am I guessing right that
this part of Orca is done by a sighted developer?  If not,
how
do you cope with it?

Any suggestions would be very appreciated.

-- 
CYa,
  ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕ | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/>
  .''`. | Get my public key via finger mlangdb.debian.org
 : :' : | 1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
 `. `'
   `-      <URL:http://delysid.org/> 
<URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

hello.
I second and third and ... wil's thoughts.
add to it, I have been writing some pygtk code and I find it
not so
difficult to remember widgets.  but I admit that people
using vb on
windows and jaws screen reader indeed create beautiful
interfaces and
I have done it myself.
I also did some research on how interraction should happen
between an
Integrated Development Environment and a blind person using
screen
reader and found that even jaws was having some
shortcomings.  so this
is free software and we can get together and work this out
as a
community.
by the way wil, I did not get reply for your email.  has it
reached this time?
happy hacking.
Krishnakant.
On 26/03/2008, Willie Walker <William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> Jon:
>
> This is definitely a good thing to raise with the Glade
folks. I think
> the best thing to do would be to log bugs with the
'glade3' component at
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug. Feel free to add
> me to the CC list and also add 'accessibility' as a
keyword for easier
> tracking.
>
> If the bugs come as constructive reports from a
community member such as
> yourself, I hope they will be positively received. It's
also a good
> time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise the awareness.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Will
>
> Jon wrote:
> > Indeed, i have been doing the same thing, trying
to work out how to work
> > glade-2 or glade-3.
> >
> > The ironic thing is that the accessibility tab has
a wheel-chair
> > picture, but there is no associated text.
> >
> > Further more, the property section, the fields are
reasonably ok, but
> > none of the associated property labels are read. I
am assuming that they
> > are not using the "labelled-by" or
"label-for" tags that they suggest
> > other people to use.
> >
> > yes, one could edit glade files by hand, or have
them created using text
> > transforms, but this relies on being able to
remember gtk widget names,
> > properties and list of associated signals.
> >
> > it would be good if we could have an accessible
version of glade-3.
> >
> > -Jon
> > On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario Lang wrote:
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> I need to write myself a bit of GTK code in
Python.
> >> I am blind, so I am going to use the finally
resulting app via Orca.
> >> The problem I seem to have is that most (or
all?) good
> >> examples on how to develop a GTK app suggest
to use Glade.
> >> While the glade description file is text, and
in theory could be
> >> edited by hand, it seems like too complicated
to do. But
> >> the glade-editor frontend is not really
accessible to me.
> >> How do other blind developer deal with this?
> >> I see orca uses glade as well. Am I guessing
right that
> >> this part of Orca is done by a sighted
developer? If not, how
> >> do you cope with it?
> >>
> >> Any suggestions would be very appreciated.
> >>
> >> --
> >> CYa,
> >> ??????????????? | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/>
> >> .''`. | Get my public key via finger mlangdb.debian.org
> >> : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
> >> `. `'
> >> `- <URL:http://delysid.org/>
> <URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
> >>
_______________________________________________
> >> Orca-list mailing list
> >> Orca-listgnome.org
> >> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > _______________________________________________
> > Orca-list mailing list
> > Orca-listgnome.org
> > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
>
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
>
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

Indeed, i have been doing the same thing, trying to work out
how to work 
glade-2 or glade-3.

The ironic thing is that the accessibility tab has a
wheel-chair 
picture, but there is no associated text.

Further more, the property section, the fields are
reasonably ok, but 
none of the associated property labels are read. I am
assuming that they 
are not using the "labelled-by" or
"label-for" tags that they suggest 
other people to use.

yes, one could edit glade files by hand, or have them
created using text 
transforms, but this relies on being able to remember gtk
widget names, 
properties and list of associated signals.

it would be good if we could have an accessible version of
glade-3.

-Jon
On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario Lang wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I need to write myself a bit of GTK code in Python.
> I am blind, so I am going to use the finally resulting
app via Orca.
> The problem I seem to have is that most (or all?) good
> examples on how to develop a GTK app suggest to use
Glade.
> While the glade description file is text, and in theory
could be
> edited by hand, it seems like too complicated to do. 
But
> the glade-editor frontend is not really accessible to
me.
> How do other blind developer deal with this?
> I see orca uses glade as well.  Am I guessing right
that
> this part of Orca is done by a sighted developer?  If
not, how
> do you cope with it?
> 
> Any suggestions would be very appreciated.
> 
> -- 
> CYa,
>   ??????????????? | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/>
>   .''`. | Get my public key via finger mlangdb.debian.org
>  : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
>  `. `'
>    `-      <URL:http://delysid.org/> 
<URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

Jon:

This is definitely a good thing to raise with the Glade
folks.  I think 
the best thing to do would be to log bugs with the 'glade3'
component at 
http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug.  Feel free to add 
me to the CC list and also add 'accessibility' as a keyword
for easier 
tracking.

If the bugs come as constructive reports from a community
member such as 
yourself, I hope they will be positively received.  It's
also a good 
time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise the awareness.

Thanks!

Will

Jon wrote:
> Indeed, i have been doing the same thing, trying to
work out how to work 
> glade-2 or glade-3.
> 
> The ironic thing is that the accessibility tab has a
wheel-chair 
> picture, but there is no associated text.
> 
> Further more, the property section, the fields are
reasonably ok, but 
> none of the associated property labels are read. I am
assuming that they 
> are not using the "labelled-by" or
"label-for" tags that they suggest 
> other people to use.
> 
> yes, one could edit glade files by hand, or have them
created using text 
> transforms, but this relies on being able to remember
gtk widget names, 
> properties and list of associated signals.
> 
> it would be good if we could have an accessible version
of glade-3.
> 
> -Jon
> On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario Lang wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> I need to write myself a bit of GTK code in
Python.
>> I am blind, so I am going to use the finally
resulting app via Orca.
>> The problem I seem to have is that most (or all?)
good
>> examples on how to develop a GTK app suggest to use
Glade.
>> While the glade description file is text, and in
theory could be
>> edited by hand, it seems like too complicated to
do.  But
>> the glade-editor frontend is not really accessible
to me.
>> How do other blind developer deal with this?
>> I see orca uses glade as well.  Am I guessing right
that
>> this part of Orca is done by a sighted developer? 
If not, how
>> do you cope with it?
>>
>> Any suggestions would be very appreciated.
>>
>> -- 
>> CYa,
>>   ??????????????? | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/>
>>   .''`. | Get my public key via finger mlangdb.debian.org
>>  : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
>>  `. `'
>>    `-      <URL:http://delysid.org/> 
<URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Orca-list mailing list
>> Orca-listgnome.org
>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:40:03PM +0100, Mario Lang wrote:
> I need to write myself a bit of GTK code in Python.
> I am blind, so I am going to use the finally resulting
app via Orca.
> The problem I seem to have is that most (or all?) good
> examples on how to develop a GTK app suggest to use
Glade.

You could write the Python code by hand following this
tutorial:
http://www.pygtk
.org/pygtk2tutorial/


_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

ok two initial bugs for glade 3 filed here:

http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524545
(need non-visual way of placing widgets on canvas)

http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524541
(property/signal fields not associated with labels)

and as soon as we see posative feedback on those we can move
to more 
accessibility/usability bugs.

-Jon
On Wed 26/03/2008 at 23:05:49, krishnakant Mane wrote:
> hello.
> I second and third and ... wil's thoughts.
> add to it, I have been writing some pygtk code and I
find it not so
> difficult to remember widgets.  but I admit that people
using vb on
> windows and jaws screen reader indeed create beautiful
interfaces and
> I have done it myself.
> I also did some research on how interraction should
happen between an
> Integrated Development Environment and a blind person
using screen
> reader and found that even jaws was having some
shortcomings.  so this
> is free software and we can get together and work this
out as a
> community.
> by the way wil, I did not get reply for your email. 
has it reached this time?
> happy hacking.
> Krishnakant.
> On 26/03/2008, Willie Walker <William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> > Jon:
> >
> > This is definitely a good thing to raise with the
Glade folks. I think
> > the best thing to do would be to log bugs with the
'glade3' component at
> > http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug. Feel free to add
> > me to the CC list and also add 'accessibility' as
a keyword for easier
> > tracking.
> >
> > If the bugs come as constructive reports from a
community member such as
> > yourself, I hope they will be positively received.
It's also a good
> > time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise the
awareness.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Will
> >
> > Jon wrote:
> > > Indeed, i have been doing the same thing,
trying to work out how to work
> > > glade-2 or glade-3.
> > >
> > > The ironic thing is that the accessibility
tab has a wheel-chair
> > > picture, but there is no associated text.
> > >
> > > Further more, the property section, the
fields are reasonably ok, but
> > > none of the associated property labels are
read. I am assuming that they
> > > are not using the "labelled-by" or
"label-for" tags that they suggest
> > > other people to use.
> > >
> > > yes, one could edit glade files by hand, or
have them created using text
> > > transforms, but this relies on being able to
remember gtk widget 
names,
> > > properties and list of associated signals.
> > >
> > > it would be good if we could have an
accessible version of glade-3.
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > > On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario Lang
wrote:
> > >> Hi.
> > >>
> > >> I need to write myself a bit of GTK code
in Python.
> > >> I am blind, so I am going to use the
finally resulting app via Orca.
> > >> The problem I seem to have is that most
(or all?) good
> > >> examples on how to develop a GTK app
suggest to use Glade.
> > >> While the glade description file is text,
and in theory could be
> > >> edited by hand, it seems like too
complicated to do. But
> > >> the glade-editor frontend is not really
accessible to me.
> > >> How do other blind developer deal with
this?
> > >> I see orca uses glade as well. Am I
guessing right that
> > >> this part of Orca is done by a sighted
developer? If not, how
> > >> do you cope with it?
> > >>
> > >> Any suggestions would be very
appreciated.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> CYa,
> > >> ??????????????? | Debian Developer
<URL:http://debian.org/>
> > >> .''`. | Get my public key via finger
mlangdb.debian.org
> > >> : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
> > >> `. `'
> > >> `- <URL:http://delysid.org/>
> > <URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
> > >>
_______________________________________________
> > >> Orca-list mailing list
> > >> Orca-listgnome.org
> > >> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > >
_______________________________________________
> > > Orca-list mailing list
> > > Orca-listgnome.org
> > > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Orca-list mailing list
> > Orca-listgnome.org
> > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> >
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

thanks jon.
as soon as some positive feedback and willingness comes from
that
side, we can also work together for creating a protocol
where we can
work with the glade3 hackers and start writing orca scripts
for its
IDE.
happy hacking.
Krishnakant.
On 27/03/2008, Jon <j.orcausergooglemail.com> wrote:
> ok two initial bugs for glade 3 filed here:
>
> http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524545
> (need non-visual way of placing widgets on canvas)
>
> http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524541
> (property/signal fields not associated with labels)
>
> and as soon as we see posative feedback on those we can
move to more
> accessibility/usability bugs.
>
> -Jon
> On Wed 26/03/2008 at 23:05:49, krishnakant Mane wrote:
> > hello.
> > I second and third and ... wil's thoughts.
> > add to it, I have been writing some pygtk code and
I find it not so
> > difficult to remember widgets. but I admit that
people using vb on
> > windows and jaws screen reader indeed create
beautiful interfaces and
> > I have done it myself.
> > I also did some research on how interraction
should happen between an
> > Integrated Development Environment and a blind
person using screen
> > reader and found that even jaws was having some
shortcomings. so this
> > is free software and we can get together and work
this out as a
> > community.
> > by the way wil, I did not get reply for your
email. has it reached this
> time?
> > happy hacking.
> > Krishnakant.
> > On 26/03/2008, Willie Walker
<William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> > > Jon:
> > >
> > > This is definitely a good thing to raise with
the Glade folks. I think
> > > the best thing to do would be to log bugs
with the 'glade3' component at
> > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug. Feel free to add
> > > me to the CC list and also add
'accessibility' as a keyword for easier
> > > tracking.
> > >
> > > If the bugs come as constructive reports from
a community member such as
> > > yourself, I hope they will be positively
received. It's also a good
> > > time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise the
awareness.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Will
> > >
> > > Jon wrote:
> > > > Indeed, i have been doing the same
thing, trying to work out how to
> work
> > > > glade-2 or glade-3.
> > > >
> > > > The ironic thing is that the
accessibility tab has a wheel-chair
> > > > picture, but there is no associated
text.
> > > >
> > > > Further more, the property section, the
fields are reasonably ok, but
> > > > none of the associated property labels
are read. I am assuming that
> they
> > > > are not using the
"labelled-by" or "label-for" tags that
they suggest
> > > > other people to use.
> > > >
> > > > yes, one could edit glade files by hand,
or have them created using
> text
> > > > transforms, but this relies on being
able to remember gtk widget
> names,
> > > > properties and list of associated
signals.
> > > >
> > > > it would be good if we could have an
accessible version of glade-3.
> > > >
> > > > -Jon
> > > > On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario
Lang wrote:
> > > >> Hi.
> > > >>
> > > >> I need to write myself a bit of GTK
code in Python.
> > > >> I am blind, so I am going to use the
finally resulting app via Orca.
> > > >> The problem I seem to have is that
most (or all?) good
> > > >> examples on how to develop a GTK app
suggest to use Glade.
> > > >> While the glade description file is
text, and in theory could be
> > > >> edited by hand, it seems like too
complicated to do. But
> > > >> the glade-editor frontend is not
really accessible to me.
> > > >> How do other blind developer deal
with this?
> > > >> I see orca uses glade as well. Am I
guessing right that
> > > >> this part of Orca is done by a
sighted developer? If not, how
> > > >> do you cope with it?
> > > >>
> > > >> Any suggestions would be very
appreciated.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> CYa,
> > > >> ??????????????? | Debian Developer
<URL:http://debian.org/>
> > > >> .''`. | Get my public key via finger
mlangdb.debian.org
> > > >> : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
> > > >> `. `'
> > > >> `- <URL:http://delysid.org/>
> > > <URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
> > > >>
_______________________________________________
> > > >> Orca-list mailing list
> > > >> Orca-listgnome.org
> > > >> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > >> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > > >
_______________________________________________
> > > > Orca-list mailing list
> > > > Orca-listgnome.org
> > > > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > >
> > >
_______________________________________________
> > > Orca-list mailing list
> > > Orca-listgnome.org
> > > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > >
>
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

Thanks Jon!

Will

Jon wrote:
> ok two initial bugs for glade 3 filed here:
> 
> http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524545
> (need non-visual way of placing widgets on canvas)
> 
> http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524541
> (property/signal fields not associated with labels)
> 
> and as soon as we see posative feedback on those we can
move to more 
> accessibility/usability bugs.
> 
> -Jon
> On Wed 26/03/2008 at 23:05:49, krishnakant Mane wrote:
>> hello.
>> I second and third and ... wil's thoughts.
>> add to it, I have been writing some pygtk code and
I find it not so
>> difficult to remember widgets.  but I admit that
people using vb on
>> windows and jaws screen reader indeed create
beautiful interfaces and
>> I have done it myself.
>> I also did some research on how interraction should
happen between an
>> Integrated Development Environment and a blind
person using screen
>> reader and found that even jaws was having some
shortcomings.  so this
>> is free software and we can get together and work
this out as a
>> community.
>> by the way wil, I did not get reply for your email.
 has it reached this time?
>> happy hacking.
>> Krishnakant.
>> On 26/03/2008, Willie Walker <William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
>>> Jon:
>>>
>>> This is definitely a good thing to raise with
the Glade folks. I think
>>> the best thing to do would be to log bugs with
the 'glade3' component at
>>> http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug. Feel free to add
>>> me to the CC list and also add 'accessibility'
as a keyword for easier
>>> tracking.
>>>
>>> If the bugs come as constructive reports from a
community member such as
>>> yourself, I hope they will be positively
received. It's also a good
>>> time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise the
awareness.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> Jon wrote:
>>>> Indeed, i have been doing the same thing,
trying to work out how to work
>>>> glade-2 or glade-3.
>>>>
>>>> The ironic thing is that the accessibility
tab has a wheel-chair
>>>> picture, but there is no associated text.
>>>>
>>>> Further more, the property section, the
fields are reasonably ok, but
>>>> none of the associated property labels are
read. I am assuming that they
>>>> are not using the "labelled-by"
or "label-for" tags that they suggest
>>>> other people to use.
>>>>
>>>> yes, one could edit glade files by hand, or
have them created using text
>>>> transforms, but this relies on being able
to remember gtk widget 
> names,
>>>> properties and list of associated signals.
>>>>
>>>> it would be good if we could have an
accessible version of glade-3.
>>>>
>>>> -Jon
>>>> On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario Lang
wrote:
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to write myself a bit of GTK
code in Python.
>>>>> I am blind, so I am going to use the
finally resulting app via Orca.
>>>>> The problem I seem to have is that most
(or all?) good
>>>>> examples on how to develop a GTK app
suggest to use Glade.
>>>>> While the glade description file is
text, and in theory could be
>>>>> edited by hand, it seems like too
complicated to do. But
>>>>> the glade-editor frontend is not really
accessible to me.
>>>>> How do other blind developer deal with
this?
>>>>> I see orca uses glade as well. Am I
guessing right that
>>>>> this part of Orca is done by a sighted
developer? If not, how
>>>>> do you cope with it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions would be very
appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> CYa,
>>>>> ??????????????? | Debian Developer
<URL:http://debian.org/>
>>>>> .''`. | Get my public key via finger
mlangdb.debian.org
>>>>> : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
>>>>> `. `'
>>>>> `- <URL:http://delysid.org/>
>>> <URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>> Orca-list mailing list
>>>>> Orca-listgnome.org
>>>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>> Orca-list mailing list
>>>> Orca-listgnome.org
>>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> Orca-list mailing list
>>> Orca-listgnome.org
>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-listgnome.org
> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

just as a side note wil,
I am not aware about accessibility of orca with other ides
like eclipse.
and by the way will it not be a good idea to have an
arketecture for
scripting similar to jaws.  what I mean to say is the user
need to
just name the script as per the application name and the
configuration
settings load as per the user has set for that application.
all that should be needed is just to put the script in the
scripts
folder and go.
further more, if some work is positively happening at the
glade3 end,
then we can add new classes based on the script object which
has what
we need to script orca for glade3.
happy hacking.
Kk

On 27/03/2008, Willie Walker <William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> Thanks Jon!
>
> Will
>
> Jon wrote:
> > ok two initial bugs for glade 3 filed here:
> >
> > http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524545
> > (need non-visual way of placing widgets on
canvas)
> >
> > http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524541
> > (property/signal fields not associated with
labels)
> >
> > and as soon as we see posative feedback on those
we can move to more
> > accessibility/usability bugs.
> >
> > -Jon
> > On Wed 26/03/2008 at 23:05:49, krishnakant Mane
wrote:
> >> hello.
> >> I second and third and ... wil's thoughts.
> >> add to it, I have been writing some pygtk code
and I find it not so
> >> difficult to remember widgets. but I admit
that people using vb on
> >> windows and jaws screen reader indeed create
beautiful interfaces and
> >> I have done it myself.
> >> I also did some research on how interraction
should happen between an
> >> Integrated Development Environment and a blind
person using screen
> >> reader and found that even jaws was having
some shortcomings. so this
> >> is free software and we can get together and
work this out as a
> >> community.
> >> by the way wil, I did not get reply for your
email. has it reached this
> time?
> >> happy hacking.
> >> Krishnakant.
> >> On 26/03/2008, Willie Walker
<William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> >>> Jon:
> >>>
> >>> This is definitely a good thing to raise
with the Glade folks. I think
> >>> the best thing to do would be to log bugs
with the 'glade3' component at
> >>> http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug. Feel free to add
> >>> me to the CC list and also add
'accessibility' as a keyword for easier
> >>> tracking.
> >>>
> >>> If the bugs come as constructive reports
from a community member such as
> >>> yourself, I hope they will be positively
received. It's also a good
> >>> time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise the
awareness.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>> Will
> >>>
> >>> Jon wrote:
> >>>> Indeed, i have been doing the same
thing, trying to work out how to
> work
> >>>> glade-2 or glade-3.
> >>>>
> >>>> The ironic thing is that the
accessibility tab has a wheel-chair
> >>>> picture, but there is no associated
text.
> >>>>
> >>>> Further more, the property section,
the fields are reasonably ok, but
> >>>> none of the associated property labels
are read. I am assuming that
> they
> >>>> are not using the
"labelled-by" or "label-for" tags that
they suggest
> >>>> other people to use.
> >>>>
> >>>> yes, one could edit glade files by
hand, or have them created using
> text
> >>>> transforms, but this relies on being
able to remember gtk widget
> > names,
> >>>> properties and list of associated
signals.
> >>>>
> >>>> it would be good if we could have an
accessible version of glade-3.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Jon
> >>>> On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03, Mario
Lang wrote:
> >>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I need to write myself a bit of
GTK code in Python.
> >>>>> I am blind, so I am going to use
the finally resulting app via Orca.
> >>>>> The problem I seem to have is that
most (or all?) good
> >>>>> examples on how to develop a GTK
app suggest to use Glade.
> >>>>> While the glade description file
is text, and in theory could be
> >>>>> edited by hand, it seems like too
complicated to do. But
> >>>>> the glade-editor frontend is not
really accessible to me.
> >>>>> How do other blind developer deal
with this?
> >>>>> I see orca uses glade as well. Am
I guessing right that
> >>>>> this part of Orca is done by a
sighted developer? If not, how
> >>>>> do you cope with it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any suggestions would be very
appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> CYa,
> >>>>> ??????????????? | Debian Developer
<URL:http://debian.org/>
> >>>>> .''`. | Get my public key via
finger mlangdb.debian.org
> >>>>> : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
> >>>>> `. `'
> >>>>> `- <URL:http://delysid.org/>
> >>> <URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
> >>>>>
_______________________________________________
> >>>>> Orca-list mailing list
> >>>>> Orca-listgnome.org
> >>>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> >>>>
_______________________________________________
> >>>> Orca-list mailing list
> >>>> Orca-listgnome.org
> >>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> >>>
_______________________________________________
> >>> Orca-list mailing list
> >>> Orca-listgnome.org
> >>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Orca-list mailing list
> > Orca-listgnome.org
> > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
>
>
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca

Orca already supports per-application-scripting.

I recall that someone previously talked about eclipse, if
you search the 
mail archives you can see what they had to say about
accessibility.
Sorry i cant remember what the conclusion was.

-Jon
On Thu 27/03/2008 at 21:02:18, krishnakant Mane wrote:
> just as a side note wil,
> I am not aware about accessibility of orca with other
ides like eclipse.
> and by the way will it not be a good idea to have an
arketecture for
> scripting similar to jaws.  what I mean to say is the
user need to
> just name the script as per the application name and
the configuration
> settings load as per the user has set for that
application.
> all that should be needed is just to put the script in
the scripts
> folder and go.
> further more, if some work is positively happening at
the glade3 end,
> then we can add new classes based on the script object
which has what
> we need to script orca for glade3.
> happy hacking.
> Kk
> 
> On 27/03/2008, Willie Walker <William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> > Thanks Jon!
> >
> > Will
> >
> > Jon wrote:
> > > ok two initial bugs for glade 3 filed here:
> > >
> > > http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524545
> > > (need non-visual way of placing widgets on
canvas)
> > >
> > > http
://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524541
> > > (property/signal fields not associated with
labels)
> > >
> > > and as soon as we see posative feedback on
those we can move to more
> > > accessibility/usability bugs.
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > > On Wed 26/03/2008 at 23:05:49, krishnakant
Mane wrote:
> > >> hello.
> > >> I second and third and ... wil's
thoughts.
> > >> add to it, I have been writing some pygtk
code and I find it not so
> > >> difficult to remember widgets. but I
admit that people using vb on
> > >> windows and jaws screen reader indeed
create beautiful interfaces and
> > >> I have done it myself.
> > >> I also did some research on how
interraction should happen between an
> > >> Integrated Development Environment and a
blind person using screen
> > >> reader and found that even jaws was
having some shortcomings. so this
> > >> is free software and we can get together
and work this out as a
> > >> community.
> > >> by the way wil, I did not get reply for
your email. has it reached this
> > time?
> > >> happy hacking.
> > >> Krishnakant.
> > >> On 26/03/2008, Willie Walker
<William.Walkersun.com> wrote:
> > >>> Jon:
> > >>>
> > >>> This is definitely a good thing to
raise with the Glade folks. I think
> > >>> the best thing to do would be to log
bugs with the 'glade3' component at
> > >>> http://bugzilla.gnome.org, with one problem per bug. Feel free to add
> > >>> me to the CC list and also add
'accessibility' as a keyword for easier
> > >>> tracking.
> > >>>
> > >>> If the bugs come as constructive
reports from a community member such as
> > >>> yourself, I hope they will be
positively received. It's also a good
> > >>> time in the GNOME 2.24 cycle to raise
the awareness.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks!
> > >>>
> > >>> Will
> > >>>
> > >>> Jon wrote:
> > >>>> Indeed, i have been doing the
same thing, trying to work out how to
> > work
> > >>>> glade-2 or glade-3.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The ironic thing is that the
accessibility tab has a wheel-chair
> > >>>> picture, but there is no
associated text.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Further more, the property
section, the fields are reasonably ok, but
> > >>>> none of the associated property
labels are read. I am assuming that
> > they
> > >>>> are not using the
"labelled-by" or "label-for" tags that
they suggest
> > >>>> other people to use.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> yes, one could edit glade files
by hand, or have them created using
> > text
> > >>>> transforms, but this relies on
being able to remember gtk widget
> > > names,
> > >>>> properties and list of associated
signals.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> it would be good if we could have
an accessible version of glade-3.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Jon
> > >>>> On Wed 26/03/2008 at 12:40:03,
Mario Lang wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I need to write myself a bit
of GTK code in Python.
> > >>>>> I am blind, so I am going to
use the finally resulting app via Orca.
> > >>>>> The problem I seem to have is
that most (or all?) good
> > >>>>> examples on how to develop a
GTK app suggest to use Glade.
> > >>>>> While the glade description
file is text, and in theory could be
> > >>>>> edited by hand, it seems like
too complicated to do. But
> > >>>>> the glade-editor frontend is
not really accessible to me.
> > >>>>> How do other blind developer
deal with this?
> > >>>>> I see orca uses glade as
well. Am I guessing right that
> > >>>>> this part of Orca is done by
a sighted developer? If not, how
> > >>>>> do you cope with it?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Any suggestions would be very
appreciated.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> CYa,
> > >>>>> ??????????????? | Debian
Developer <URL:http://debian.org/>
> > >>>>> .''`. | Get my public key via
finger mlangdb.debian.org
> > >>>>> : :' : |
1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44
> > >>>>> `. `'
> > >>>>> `- <URL:http://delysid.org/>
> > >>> <URL:http://www.staf
f.tugraz.at/mlang/>
> > >>>>>
_______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Orca-list mailing list
> > >>>>> Orca-listgnome.org
> > >>>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > >>>>
_______________________________________________
> > >>>> Orca-list mailing list
> > >>>> Orca-listgnome.org
> > >>>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > >>>
_______________________________________________
> > >>> Orca-list mailing list
> > >>> Orca-listgnome.org
> > >>> http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> > >>>
> > >
_______________________________________________
> > > Orca-list mailing list
> > > Orca-listgnome.org
> > > http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca
> >
> >
_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-listgnome.org
http
://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
 for more information on Orca