Re: Re: Future Perl development

> > >
> > > I think Perl needs some "PR" to
make companies aware of Perls
cabilities
> > > and future development...
> > >
> > Yes, Yes, Yes.
>
> http://www.per
lfoundation.org/who.html
>
> shows:
>
> * Public Relations - Andy Lester
>
> * "At Large" committee members:
>      * Paul Blair (PR)
>
>
> If people have ways of complimenting the PR that TPF is
already doing,
then
> I'm sure they'd be glad to hear about it.
>

It's great that the Perl Foundation started the blog. I
think the blog
made a great contribution to bring more transparency of TPFs
work. And
they can't do everything...

Some ideas about a fictive Perl-PR-platform:

*) search for companies that use Perl a lot
**) provide this list to workshop organisers (to ask for
sponsoring)
*) regular press releases on press portals (e.g. openpr.com)
about Perl
projects (e.g. milestones of Parrot, great developments of
Catalyst,...)  to keep these projects in the public's mind
*) keep a knowledge base of Perl project up to date (at
least some
links)
*) links to perl-related  "media" (perlcast.com,
radio-perl.de,
theperlreview.com, foo-magazin.de,...)
*) links to perl-related jobs
**) I search the interenet for Perl-Jobs (in the
germanspeaking area)
regularly, but these jobs doesn't appear on jobs.perl.org
*) up-to-date success stories
*) a calendar (with "search by country"
abilities)
*) list of personalities who want to talk in other PM
groups
*) active fundraising (maybe like Wikimedia)

I know  that lots some of these things already exist, but
they are
widely spread. That means, that you have to know where you
can find
these information.

ReneeB


>
> Nicholas Clark
>
>
>
>
---

renee.baeckersmart-websolutions.de

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On 2/28/07, renee.baeckersmart-websolutions.de
<renee.baeckersmart-websolutions.de> wrote:
> *) search for companies that use Perl a lot
> **) provide this list to workshop organisers (to ask
for sponsoring)

There needs to be a well advertised way to do this without
releasing
the source of the information.

I suspect many firms would consider this kind of information
at lest
sensitive, so many employees wouldnt want to provide the
information
unless they had a very good basis to believe that their
identitiy
would be protected. For instance in some cases it may not
be
sufficient to just protect their identity, it may be
necessary to
avoid mentioning what the use is for. Which probably makes
it harder
to exploit the information, but IMO is necessary to get the
information to flow.

Also it occurs to me that Perl doesnt ship with any
documentation on
this stuff. Or if it does its not prominent in the
documentation. If
we had a perladvocacy.pod or perldonate.pod or something
like that in
shipping perls I think wed be much more likely to get both
verbal and
financial  feedback.

Of course financial feedback would require a clearly
identifiable
place to make the donation to, would have to have European
representation so that the donation could be tax-deductable
in the
country of donation, and would have to have a high level of
financial
transparency. It would also have to support directed
donations. I
doubt many large scale commerical endeavours would be
willing to
donate to speculative development efforts (although id love
to wrong),
but would be willing to donate to a well established project
that they
are already using.

Eg: Currently if you donate to TPF from Europe you can't
claim it on
your taxes FWIK. Certainly not in Germany.

cheers,
Yves





-- 
perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"

On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 01:30:47PM +0100, renee.baeckersmart-websolutions.de wrote:
> 
> Some ideas about a fictive Perl-PR-platform:

[ SNIP ]

I've said this before, and I say so again:

*) Don't wait five years between major releases. 

Perl is used a lot in companies without the company being a
"Perl shop".
It's there between the big application and the mailer, it
rolls out
applications, it dumps the databases and it will page
someone if the
printer is out of paper. It's brought to the company by the
sysadmins
and the engineers whose job it is to keep things rolling.
Most of them
have lives and don't keep up what's happening in the Perl
community.

But they do keep track of releases of the tools they use.

And they do notice that the last major release of Perl was a
long time ago.

And draw their (wrong) conclusions.


For PR reasons, it would have been better if 5.10 was
released three
years ago (with whatever features then available), and that
is now going
to be 5.10 would be 5.12 (or 5.14).


Abigail

On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 03:01:04PM +0100, Abigail wrote:
> For PR reasons, it would have been better if 5.10 was
released three
> years ago (with whatever features then available), and
that is now going
> to be 5.10 would be 5.12 (or 5.14).

Three years ago everyone was waiting for Perl 6.

And now some quotes...

Quote from 'Damian Conway's Perl 6 Update' (February
2001):

  'Step 7: Alpha release
   ...
   * Scheduled: June 2001'

Quote from 'The State of the Onion' (by Larry Wall, 2002):

   'Obviously, Perl 5 has been aging, but there is no reason
to bury
   it just yet.  And we haven't.  But Perl 5 will eventually
succumb
   to the bitrot that overtakes all large projects, and we
have to be
   ready for the transition to Perl 6 when it is time.'

and

   'Let me put this bluntly.  If we'd done Perl 6 on a
schedule, you'd
   have it by now.  And it would be crap.  Perl 6 will be
ready when
   all the inputs are there, and all the event-driven
decision circuits
   have had a chance to make their decisions.  We're not the
least bit
   afraid to slip our schedule, because we don't have a
schedule.  We
   just have a plan.'

Quote from 'The State of the Onion' (by Larry Wall, August
19, 2004):

   '... [Apocalypse 12] ... With that, the design of Perl 6
can be
   said to be largely complete.

   We are now in the endgame, which is the name of this
screensaver. Now
   that the Parrot engine is in such fine shape, it's time
to concentrate
   on writing a fine Perl 6 compiler to target it.'



Robin

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Moin,

On Wednesday 28 February 2007 14:45:06 Robin Redeker wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 03:01:04PM +0100, Abigail
wrote:
> > For PR reasons, it would have been better if 5.10
was released three
> > years ago (with whatever features then available),
and that is now
> > going to be 5.10 would be 5.12 (or 5.14).
>
> Three years ago everyone was waiting for Perl 6.
>
> And now some quotes...

Wow, I will put these into my .sigfile right next to the
Duke Nukem Forever 
quotes.

(In my mind, Perl 6 was the worst thing that could happen to
Perl5 since it 
drew large man power away from Perl 5 development to produce
- well, 
Parrot. Bot to belittle Parrot as it is a very interesting
project in 
itself, even tho it started as an April's Fool, but it is
not Perl 6. Perl 
6.0.0 does not exist yet.)

All the best,

Tels

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On Feb 28, 2007, at 1:34 PM, Tels wrote:

> (In my mind, Perl 6 was the worst thing that could
happen to Perl5  
> since it
> drew large man power away from Perl 5 development to
produce

I think that's like blaming the man who your wife runs away
with.  If  
she was happy with you, she'd have stayed with you.

--
Andy Lester => andypetdance.com => www.petdance.com =>
AIM:petdance

On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:34:14PM +0000, Tels wrote:

> Wow, I will put these into my .sigfile right next to
the Duke Nukem Forever 
> quotes.

Are there quotes on Arc? Xanadu has now been released. But
it had a bit of a
headstart.

> (In my mind, Perl 6 was the worst thing that could
happen to Perl5 since it 
> drew large man power away from Perl 5 development to
produce - well, 
> Parrot. Bot to belittle Parrot as it is a very
interesting project in 
> itself, even tho it started as an April's Fool, but it
is not Perl 6. Perl 
> 6.0.0 does not exist yet.)

We've been onto this before and

1: It's off topic for perl5-porters

(what I agree with and what I don't can be found out given
sufficient beer.
But you won't find out everything that way)

Also, I should note, that anyone who wants to change history
has a minor
problem with causality, even if they get their time machine
working.

Nicholas Clark

On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:34:14PM +0000, Tels wrote:
> 
> (In my mind, Perl 6 was the worst thing that could
happen to Perl5 since it 
> drew large man power away from Perl 5 development to
produce 


There are some who say that it drew away all of the
...contentious
people to let p5p concentrate on making Perl 5 better. It's
not like 5.8
and 5.10 have exactly been been bad development cycles in
terms of
functionality and stability ;)

-j

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Moin,

On Wednesday 28 February 2007 18:38:30 Andy Lester wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2007, at 1:34 PM, Tels wrote:
> > (In my mind, Perl 6 was the worst thing that could
happen to Perl5
> > since it
> > drew large man power away from Perl 5 development
to produce
>
> I think that's like blaming the man who your wife runs
away with.  If
> she was happy with you, she'd have stayed with you.

Ugh, is today bad analogy day or what?

Tels

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 Signed on Wed Feb 28 20:01:06 2007 with key 0x93B84C15.
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os
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 "Duke Nukem Forever is a 1999 game and we think that
timeframe matches
 very well with what we have planned for the game."

  -- George Broussard, 1998 (http://tinyurl.com/6m8nh
)
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On Wednesday 28 February 2007 18:47:08 Nicholas Clark
wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:34:14PM +0000, Tels wrote:
> > Wow, I will put these into my .sigfile right next
to the Duke Nukem
> > Forever quotes.
>
> Are there quotes on Arc? Xanadu has now been released.
But it had a bit
> of a headstart.

Sorry but I have no idea what Arc and Xanadu are. I remember
reading a very 
interesting story about some software called
"xanadu", but the details are 
already getting lost in my mind.

[dropping the rest of the discussion] I really shouldn't get
anymore into 
anything related on how I want things to be. Sorry.

Best wishes,

Tels

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