passing parameters by reference

Hi all,
i've a question about passing parameters by reference and
not by
value.
I'm using WS binding to talk with a remote service. I can't
change or
ask to change that remote service and it use a "by
reference"
approach.
Is there some way to use SCA impl. in this particular case?
I think it's not a useful way to force access to private
attribute of
returned object...

I read this sentence in SCA documentation:

"How parameters are always passed by value (and not by
reference)
between components, even when the calls are local. This
ensures that
the semantics of a call do not change depending on the
location of a
component."

I can agree, but can you explain me deeply WHY "passing
by reference"
is not supported so i can be more "strong"
defending it?

Thank you in advence
M


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Hi M,

Passing by-value is what the SCA specifications (see
http://osoa.org/display/Main/Service+C
omponent+Architecture+Specifications)
say should be the calling semantics for remote services. 
SCA in PHP
treats all services as remote and assumes local by-reference
calls
will just be done using the normal features of PHP.

Passing by-value is a good practice for remote service calls
because
it helps with decoupling the two environments by not relying
on
sharing instance data.

I'm afraid I don't fully understand the scenario you're
describing.
Would it be possible for you to post an example WSDL and a
description
of what you think needs to be supported?

Regards, Graham.

On 18 Sep, 16:59, mbertazz <berta...gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> i've a question about passing parameters by reference
and not by
> value.
> I'm using WS binding to talk with a remote service. I
can't change or
> ask to change that remote service and it use a "by
reference"
> approach.
> Is there some way to use SCA impl. in this particular
case?
> I think it's not a useful way to force access to
private attribute of
> returned object...
>
> I read this sentence in SCA documentation:
>
> "How parameters are always passed by value (and
not by reference)
> between components, even when the calls are local. This
ensures that
> the semantics of a call do not change depending on the
location of a
> component."
>
> I can agree, but can you explain me deeply WHY
"passing by reference"
> is not supported so i can be more "strong"
defending it?
>
> Thank you in advence
> M


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Dear Graham,
thank yuo for your answer.
I'm attaching the wsdl file.

As you can see there are "in/out" paramenters.
When i make a call i can't access the result because it's
private.

Thank you in advance,
Matteo


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"
?>
<wsdl:definitions name="XXXXX_WSA"
targetNamespace="http://
YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/XXXXX_WSAImpl"
    xmlns:tnsi="http://YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/XXXXX_WSAImpl"

    xmlns:wsdl="http://schemas
.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/"
    xmlnssd=&q
uot;http://www.w3.
org/2001/XMLSchema"
    xmlns:soap="http://sc
hemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/soap/"
    xmlns:tnsa="http://YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/XXXXX_WSA">

    <wsdl:import namespace="http://YYY.YYY.
YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/
XXXXX_WSA"
         location="http://YYY.YYY.
YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/
XXXXX_WSA.wsdl"/>
    <wsdl:binding name="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServiceBinding"
type="tnsa:XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServicePortType">
        <soap:binding transport="http://sch
emas.xmlsoap.org/soap/http"
style="rpc"/>
        <wsdl:operation name="fn_dologin">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_dologinInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_dologinOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_dologin return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_username
in,java.lang.String,as_password
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_sessionid"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation name="fn_dologout">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_dologoutInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_dologoutOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_dologout return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_sessionid"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xmlInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xmlOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml
return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_sessionid
in,java.lang.String,as_retrieve
in,java.lang.String,as_params
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_l">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_l
return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_username
in,java.lang.String,as_password
in,java.lang.String,as_retrieve
in,java.lang.String,as_params
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lx">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lxInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lxOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_lx
return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_username
in,java.lang.String,as_password
in,java.lang.String,as_xml_in
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml_out"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_p">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_p
return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_retrieve
in,java.lang.String,as_params
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_px">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pxInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pxOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_px
return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_xml_in
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml_out"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_x">
            <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_xInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_xOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_x
return,int,return
in,java.lang.String,as_sessionid
in,java.lang.String,as_xml_in
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml_out"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
        <wsdl:operation name="fp_log">
            <wsdl:input name="fp_logInput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:input>
            <wsdl:output
name="fp_logOutput">
                <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
            </wsdl:output>
            <soap:operation soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fp_log return,void,return
in,java.lang.String,as_nm_calling
in,java.lang.String,as_msg"
style="rpc"/>
        </wsdl:operation>
    </wsdl:binding>
    <wsdl:service name="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterService">
        <wsdl:port name="XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServicePort8"
binding="tnsi:XXXXX_WS/
n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServiceBinding">
            <soap:address location="http://YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:Y
YYY/
WEBSERVICES/SOAP"/>
        </wsdl:port>
    </wsdl:service>
</wsdl:definitions>






On 19 Set, 11:20, Graham Charters <gchart...googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi M,
>
> Passing by-value is what the SCA specifications (seehttp://osoa.org/display/Main/Service+Com
ponent+Architecture+Specifica...)
> say should be the calling semantics for remote
services.  SCA in PHP
> treats all services as remote and assumes local
by-reference calls
> will just be done using the normal features of PHP.
>
> Passing by-value is a good practice for remote service
calls because
> it helps with decoupling the two environments by not
relying on
> sharing instance data.
>
> I'm afraid I don't fully understand the scenario you're
describing.
> Would it be possible for you to post an example WSDL
and a description
> of what you think needs to be supported?
>
> Regards, Graham.
>
> On 18 Sep, 16:59, mbertazz <berta...gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > i've a question about passing parameters by
reference and not by
> > value.
> > I'm using WS binding to talk with a remote
service. I can't change or
> > ask to change that remote service and it use a
"by reference"
> > approach.
> > Is there some way to use SCA impl. in this
particular case?
> > I think it's not a useful way to force access to
private attribute of
> > returned object...
>
> > I read this sentence in SCA documentation:
>
> > "How parameters are always passed by value
(and not by reference)
> > between components, even when the calls are local.
This ensures that
> > the semantics of a call do not change depending on
the location of a
> > component."
>
> > I can agree, but can you explain me deeply WHY
"passing by reference"
> > is not supported so i can be more
"strong" defending it?
>
> > Thank you in advence
> > M


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On 21 Sep, 08:18, mbertazz <berta...gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Graham,
> thank yuo for your answer.
> I'm attaching the wsdl file.
>
> As you can see there are "in/out"
paramenters.
> When i make a call i can't access the result because
it's private.
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Matteo
>
> <?xml version="1.0"
encoding="UTF-8" ?>
> <wsdl:definitions name="XXXXX_WSA"
targetNamespace="http://
> YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/XXXXX_WSAImpl"
>     xmlns:tnsi="http://YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/XXXXX_WSAImpl"

>     xmlns:wsdl="http://schemas
.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/"
>     xmlnssd=&q
uot;http://www.w3.
org/2001/XMLSchema"
>     xmlns:soap="http://sc
hemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/soap/"
>     xmlns:tnsa="http://YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/XXXXX_WSA">

>     <wsdl:import namespace="http://YYY.YYY.
YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/
> XXXXX_WSA"
>          location="http://YYY.YYY.
YYY.YYY:YYYY/XXXXX_WS/
> XXXXX_WSA.wsdl"/>
>     <wsdl:binding name="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServiceBinding"
type="tnsa:XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServicePortType">
>         <soap:binding transport="http://sch
emas.xmlsoap.org/soap/http"
> style="rpc"/>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_dologin">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_dologinInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_dologinOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_dologin
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_username
in,java.lang.String,as_password
> inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_sessionid"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_dologout">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_dologoutInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_dologoutOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_dologout
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_sessionid"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xmlInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xmlOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_sessionid
in,java.lang.String,as_retrieve
> in,java.lang.String,as_params
inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml"
> style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_l">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_l
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_username
in,java.lang.String,as_password
> in,java.lang.String,as_retrieve
in,java.lang.String,as_params
> inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lx">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lxInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_lxOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_lx
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_username
in,java.lang.String,as_password
> in,java.lang.String,as_xml_in
> inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml_out"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_p">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_p
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_retrieve
in,java.lang.String,as_params
> inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_px">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pxInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_pxOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_px
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_xml_in
> inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml_out"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation
name="fn_retrieve_xml_x">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fn_retrieve_xml_xInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fn_retrieve_xml_xOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fn_retrieve_xml_x
return,int,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_sessionid
in,java.lang.String,as_xml_in
> inout,org.omg.CORBA.StringHolder,as_xml_out"
style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>         <wsdl:operation name="fp_log">
>             <wsdl:input
name="fp_logInput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:input>
>             <wsdl:output
name="fp_logOutput">
>                 <soap:body encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.or
g/
> soap/encoding/" use="encoded"/>
>             </wsdl:output>
>             <soap:operation
soapAction="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapter.fp_log
return,void,return
> in,java.lang.String,as_nm_calling
in,java.lang.String,as_msg"
> style="rpc"/>
>         </wsdl:operation>
>     </wsdl:binding>
>     <wsdl:service name="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterService">
>         <wsdl:port name="XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServicePort8"
binding="tnsi:XXXXX_WS/
> n_xxxxx_ws_winsession_adapterServiceBinding">
>             <soap:address location="http://YYY.YYY.YYY.YYY:Y
YYY/
> WEBSERVICES/SOAP"/>
>         </wsdl:port>
>     </wsdl:service>
> </wsdl:definitions>
>
> On 19 Set, 11:20, Graham Charters <gchart...googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi M,
>
> > Passing by-value is what the SCA specifications
(seehttp://osoa.org/display/Main/Service+Com
ponent+Architecture+Specifica...)
> > say should be the calling semantics for remote
services.  SCA in PHP
> > treats all services as remote and assumes local
by-reference calls
> > will just be done using the normal features of
PHP.
>
> > Passing by-value is a good practice for remote
service calls because
> > it helps with decoupling the two environments by
not relying on
> > sharing instance data.
>
> > I'm afraid I don't fully understand the scenario
you're describing.
> > Would it be possible for you to post an example
WSDL and a description
> > of what you think needs to be supported?
>
> > Regards, Graham.
>
> > On 18 Sep, 16:59, mbertazz <berta...gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi all,
> > > i've a question about passing parameters by
reference and not by
> > > value.
> > > I'm using WS binding to talk with a remote
service. I can't change or
> > > ask to change that remote service and it use
a "by reference"
> > > approach.
> > > Is there some way to use SCA impl. in this
particular case?
> > > I think it's not a useful way to force access
to private attribute of
> > > returned object...
>
> > > I read this sentence in SCA documentation:
>
> > > "How parameters are always passed by
value (and not by reference)
> > > between components, even when the calls are
local. This ensures that
> > > the semantics of a call do not change
depending on the location of a
> > > component."
>
> > > I can agree, but can you explain me deeply
WHY "passing by reference"
> > > is not supported so i can be more
"strong" defending it?
>
> > > Thank you in advence
> > > M

Hi Matteo

Am just jumping in here as this looks interesting. A couple
more
questions I'm afraid....

1/ Does this WSDL work with the PHP SOAP extension? I.e.
forgetting
SCA can you send the message/receive the response you need
from PHP. I
ask this as SCA uses the PHP SOAP extension under the covers
so what
works there should work for us. This lead onto the next
question

2/ What are you expecting from the "by reference" 
approach you talk
about in you first post. I note that there is some CORBA
stuff going
on here so are the "refereces" here reference to
some remote service?

3/ Following on from 2/ what are the implications of the
extra SOAP
Action information. Is there anything in there are you are
expecting
the SOAP infrastructure to take account of. For example, I
note that
this is where the "inout" phrase that you mention
comes up.

Regards

Simon


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