Padma menus and website content updations

1.
http://padma.mozdev.org/
site says:
"Padma can automatically transform web pages that use
the above dynamic 
font schemes to Unicode. Configuration can be done by
clicking on 
Tools-> *Extensions* ->Padma."

Now that FF and TB both had changed their nomenclature,
please change 
the word *Extensions* to *Add-ons*

2.
It is odd that Padma doesn't have any direct entry in Tools
menu 
dropdown. We necessarily have to into Add-ons window that
takes time in 
opening and then in searching Padma in it.

If it is not too difficult to incorporate, I feel that it
will be 
helpful to have a Padma group in the Tools menu dropdown.
Main options 
can be given in a subgroup of it, especially the padma
Options. And also 
the manual transform settings which are currently accessible
only 
through right click menu.

3.
Rightclick menu directly lists all the selected settings of
padma and it 
could go very, very long if a person has selected all or
most of the 
settings. It would help if rightclick menu rather has a
padma group and 
the settings of padma are clubbed as a subgroup of that.

4. I went to http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/
1/158.html

that has a hindi song written in itrans (mentioned later
below). I 
selected the itrans part, rightclicked, and clicked on
"Transform to 
Unicode".

Nothing happened.

Can't we transform ITRANS directly to unicode? Why?

or is the transformation looking for some tags or Encoding
setting that 
is not there in this part? What are they?

I couldn't find any mention of such tags or encoding on
padma page. The 
page just reads:
"Padma's manual transformer is accessible whenever the
context menu is 
launched after selecting a region in the page (typically by
a right 
click). This menu is also configurable from the options
window. 
Configurable options include schemes (RTS, ITRANS, ISCII),
TSCII, TAB, 
TAM and scripts (Telugu, Malayalam, Tamil, Devanagari,
Gujarati and 
Kannada). One menu item - 'Transform to Unicode' is always
displayed. 
The selection can span arbitrary page elements."

Last month also, I had faced a problem in conversion of a
page that was 
solved by discussion here that some encodings needed to be
changed. But, 
I do not find that mentioned on the page. Hope that is
updated at proper 
place in the website so that new people can do it and don't
have to 
access the mailing list. You would realize that most of the
people who 
face a problem just leave the extension and don't bother to
locate, 
become member, access mailing lists.

5. I need to convert the itrans part of the above to
Unicode. Manually, 
because I also want to see the english itrans part. How to
convert from 
itrans to unicode using padma?

6. If we are specifically selecting some Padma related
option, and Padma 
doesn't find anything to work upon, it should display a
message window 
saying that what it was looking for and what it didn't found
(tag, font, 
encodings) and should also suggest some minimum things how
to rectify 
that. Maybe give a link to help or webpage where that
"nothing happens" 
is discussed.

If a user has specifically selected some Padma related
option, then 
trust that user is right and it is padma which could not
find something 
that it was looking for.

7. I selected the itrans part in the above page and clicked
itrans to 
devnagari. It worked. giving the itrans and devnagari lines
together 
with my comments in "---":

--
aaj puraanii raaho.n se, koI mujhe aavaaz na de
आज् पुरानी राहॊं सॆ,
कॊई मुझॆ आवाऴ् न दॆ

--- in above, there should not be any halanth with j in aaj.
itrans 
allows to remove one ending a. so there is no need to write
it aaja but 
aaj is sufficient.

--- in above, z in aavaaz should convert not to that letter
but to urdu 
z with a nukta.

dard me.n Duube giit na de, gam kaa sisakataa saaz na de
दर्द् मॆं डूबॆ गीत् न
दॆ, गम् का सिसकता साऴ् न
दॆ

biite dino.n kii yaad thii jiname.n, mai.n vo taraane bhuul
chukaa
बीतॆ दिनॊं की याद् थी
जिनमॆं, मैं वॊ तरानॆ
भूल् चुका

aaj na_ii ma.nzil hai merii, kal ke Thikaane bhuul chukaa
आज् न_ई मंऴिल् है मॆरी,
कल् कॆ ठिकानॆ भूल्
चुका

--- "_" underscore is the allowed
"breaker" in itrans. it means that 
previous set of syllables have ended and new have started.
thus it 
should not be retained or transliterated. rather it should
reset the 
itransliteration. (otherwsie "naii" would have got
interpreted as nai_i 
as itrans rule is to take the longest valid string)

na vo dil na sanam, na vo diin-dharam, ab duur huu.N saare
gunaaho.n se
न वॊ दिल् न सनम्, न वॊ
दीन्-धरम्, अब् दूर् हूँ
सारॆ गुनाहॊं सॆ

jiivan badalaa duniyaa badalii, man ko anokhaa GYaan milaa
जीवन् बदला दुनिया
बदली, मन् कॊ अनॊखा
ज्ञान् मिला
aaj mujhe apane hii dil me.n, ek nayaa inasaan milaa
आज् मुझॆ अपनॆ ही दिल्
मॆं, ऎक् नया इनसान्
मिला

--- that is wrong ऎ for e. e, as per itrans is without
that maatra.

pahu.Nchaa huu.N vahaa.N, nahii.n duur jahaa.N, bhagavaan
kii nek 
nigaaho.n se
पहुँचा हूँ वहाँ, नहीं
दूर् जहाँ, भगवान् की
नॆक् निगाहॊं सॆ

TuuT chuke sab pyaar ke ba.ndhan, aaj koii za.njiir nahii.n
टूट् चुकॆ सब् प्यार्
कॆ बंधन्, आज् कॊई
ऴंजीर् नहीं
shiishaa-e-dil me.n aramaano.n kii, aaj koii tasviir nahii.n
शीशा-ऎ-दिल् मॆं
अरमानॊं की, आज् कॊई
तस्वीर् नहीं
ab shaad huu.N mai.n, aazaad huu.N mai.n, kuchh kaam nahii.n
hai aaho.n se
अब् शाद् हूँ मैं, आऴाद्
हूँ मैं, कुछ् काम् नहीं
है आहॊं सॆ

same errors get repeated several times.

It is a long mail. Hope you would spare your precious time
to have a 
look at it.

Thanks for a wonderful extension.
--
Rawat
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/
1/158.html

Some more things I noted now.

8.
I went to Tools-addons-padma-options. Enable Auto Transform
was ticked. 
I went to Update.

I added the said site "http://pages.cs.wisc.
edu/" in the box, retained 
"Default" in the next box, clicked on Add. it
appeared in the lower box. 
clicked OK, OK and closed.

I refreshed the above page. Nothing happened. No
auto-transform to 
unicode/ devanagari.

The char encoding was Unicode UTF-8.

I changed encoding to Western ISO-8859-1 and refreshed.
Nothing happened.

I changed encoding to Western Windows-1252 and refreshed.
Nothing happened.

9.
I again went to padma - options - update.

I clicked on the name of the URI "http://pages.cs.wisc.
edu/" that I had 
just added.

I didn't find any option to "Edit" my settings.
URI could have appeared 
in the box above with its script, and I should be able to
edit it. But 
such option is not there.

I just have to "Remove site" and re-enter it.

Please provide option to edit a site that we have already
entered. That 
will surely help if we just want to change the Script for a
site.

10.
ok. I removed the site, re-entered it, and this time went
into the 
Script options box.

What exactly is script and what is meant by Default?

There is no itrans or unicode entries in that box though I
wonder 
whether these two could be called script.

I mean, suppose there is a HTML page in shusha and I want
that to be 
transformed to Unicode, what should I add there?

now, suppose there is a PLAIN TEXT page in shusha and I want
that to be 
transformed to Unicode, what should I add there? It would
have no tags 
to tell padma the source, but I know that the website uses
Shusha and 
padma does have methods to transform Shusha to Unicode. So,
how can I 
tell padma not to look for any tags/ encodings of this page
and go ahead 
  transform whatever contents are there into unicode,
assuming that it 
is in Shusha.

Similar requirements could be for ITRANS encoded pages which
are needed 
to be transformed to unicode. Even the html pages having
itrans don't 
have any tag to mark the beginning or end of itrans. itrans
is basically 
english plain text and the html page just has it. So, how
can I 
auto-transform a site which I know has plain text pages in
ITRANS.

Of course itrans files have non-itrans part also, but never
mind. I can 
read the english non-itrans part first and then read the
unicode part 
after padma transformed it.

11.
Anyway. This time I selected Script=Devnagari. Saved it, and
refreshed 
the page. No auto transform. What gives?

Thanks.
-- 
Rawat
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

Some more things.

If padma needs some specific encoding or specific script to
trigger the 
transformation, why doesn't padma define some tags for such
encodings 
and scripts and codify auto-transform on the basis of that.

Please see. encoding is a browser default that we set once
and forget. 
We can't define encoding for each site/ page, nor does
browser remembers 
if we had previously set some encoding for some site/page.
hence, it is 
not convenient if padma gets triggerred on some particular
encodings.

Maybe padma could give option to users to create the
site/page - 
encoding combinations in padma's options so that
auto-transformation 
gets triggered if the site matches padma's site list and
padma can know 
the encoding from what padma has saved.

Similarly padma can define tags like
<ITRANS></ITRANS> and 
auto-transforms pages where these tags are encountered.

Websites who find it helpful to have their contents
auto-transformed 
through padma might start following it.

And, even if websites don't follow it, padma has grown
beyond websites 
and people are (at least I am) using padma to convert things
to Unicode 
by creating html pages, including source text that needs to
be 
converted. Then I load that in browser and padma should auto
transform 
it. I will surely use padma defined tags if it helps me in
getting what 
I want.

I am even ready to use a <PADMA> </PADMA> tag in
the pages that I create 
for transformation if it helps me.

please give it a thought.

And, why use that hi-fi word TRANSFORM. The net standard for
such things 
is CONVERT.  But no
problem, I can live with it.

Thanks for your patience.
-- 
Rawat
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

I have selecte only "Devanagri" as Scripts and
only ITRANS as Schemes in 
Padma in TB.

however when i select something and rightclick I also get
the following 
options:

ISCII to Bengali
ISCII to Gurmukhi
ITRANS to Gurmukhi
TAB to Tamil

I even went to config editor in TB and set those options to
false which 
I didn't need (somehow they were appearing as true in config
editor even 
when they were appearing off in padma options). Still it is
showing the 
above unwanted options.

How to remove these?

Thanks.
-- 
Rawat
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

Thanks for your comments. I will try to address as many as
possible
here. At the end of this, we can hopefully agree upon a list
of action
iterms.

On 7/7/07, V S Rawat <vsrawatgmail.com> wrote:
> 1.
> Now that FF and TB both had changed their nomenclature,
please change
> the word *Extensions* to *Add-ons*

I fixed this at the Addon home page but not at Mozdev. Will
do this.

>
> 2.
> It is odd that Padma doesn't have any direct entry in
Tools menu
> dropdown. We necessarily have to into Add-ons window
that takes time in
> opening and then in searching Padma in it.

I think addons should live under addons. I, personally,
wouldn't like
extensions that keep adding themselves to top level menus. I
think
thats what extension developers manual recommends too.

> 3.
> Rightclick menu directly lists all the selected
settings of padma and it
> could go very, very long if a person has selected all
or most of the
> settings. It would help if rightclick menu rather has a
padma group and
> the settings of padma are clubbed as a subgroup of
that.

This has been on the wishlist for a while. Never got around
to doing it.

>
> 4. I went to http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/
1/158.html
>
> that has a hindi song written in itrans (mentioned
later below). I
> selected the itrans part, rightclicked, and clicked on
"Transform to
> Unicode".
>
> Nothing happened.

Padma has two modes - conversion of dynamic fonts which
happens when
the text is written to be displayed in a font that it
understands.
This 'writing' can happen in many ways - wrapping in FONT
tag is one
mechanism. Padma supports all such mechanisms.

The second mode is support for transliteration. The source
is in Roman
Script and there is no way for Padma to know what the method
of
transliteration is. So you have to tell Padma what the
source is.

>
> Can't we transform ITRANS directly to unicode? Why?

Yes, you can directly transform. You just need to click on
the right button.

> 5. I need to convert the itrans part of the above to
Unicode. Manually,
> because I also want to see the english itrans part. How
to convert from
> itrans to unicode using padma?

Click on Transform from ITRANS to whatever script you want.

>
> 6. If we are specifically selecting some Padma related
option, and Padma
> doesn't find anything to work upon, it should display a
message window
> saying that what it was looking for and what it didn't
found (tag, font,
> encodings) and should also suggest some minimum things
how to rectify
> that. Maybe give a link to help or webpage where that
"nothing happens"
> is discussed.

You are welcome to write a manual. I just don't have the
cycles to do
it. I agree with your arguments in general and it is
unfortunate that
no one can do it.

>
> If a user has specifically selected some Padma related
option, then
> trust that user is right and it is padma which could
not find something
> that it was looking for.

That's a philosophical point.


>
> 7. I selected the itrans part in the above page and
clicked itrans to
>
> same errors get repeated several times.

All these are well known bugs in ITRANS transformer. No one
really
uses it, so they never got fixed. I really need help in
fixing this
stuff - so I would appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Nagarjuna
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

On 7/7/07, V S Rawat <vsrawatgmail.com> wrote:
> I have selecte only "Devanagri" as Scripts
and only ITRANS as Schemes in
> Padma in TB.
>
> however when i select something and rightclick I also
get the following
> options:
>
> ISCII to Bengali
> ISCII to Gurmukhi
> ITRANS to Gurmukhi
> TAB to Tamil
>
> I even went to config editor in TB and set those
options to false which
> I didn't need (somehow they were appearing as true in
config editor even
> when they were appearing off in padma options). Still
it is showing the
> above unwanted options.
>
> How to remove these?
>
> Thanks.

This is a bug fixed in 0.4.11. Please try with that
version.

Thanks,
Nagarjuna
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

As I mentioned in the previous mail, Padma does two
completely
different things and you are mixing the two up. The auto
transformation is *only* for pages that have dynamic fonts,
the page
you refer to has no dynamic fonts and so no there is nothing
to do.
You have to use the manual transformer whenever you want to
transform
from transliteration schemes. I agree things like these need
to go
into a manual or help page.

> 9.
>
> Please provide option to edit a site that we have
already entered. That
> will surely help if we just want to change the Script
for a site.

You can right click on a site and change the output script.
That is
the only option provided because that is the only thing that
makes
sense there. You may want to fix any typos instead of typing
the whole
thing again if you made a mistake with the URL and will be a
good
addition.

>
> 10.
> ok. I removed the site, re-entered it, and this time
went into the
> Script options box.
>
> What exactly is script and what is meant by Default?

Script list allows you to choose the script to which you
want the
dynamic font in the pages for that URL to be transformed.
Default says
do the regular transform - Eenadu pages are in Telugu,
Dainik Bhaskar
is in Devanagari etc. If you want to read Bhaskar in
Malayalam, you
will pick it there.

>
> There is no itrans or unicode entries in that box
though I wonder
> whether these two could be called script.

As I explanied above, it makes no sense to have them here.

> now, suppose there is a PLAIN TEXT page in shusha and I
want that to be
> transformed to Unicode, what should I add there? It
would have no tags
> to tell padma the source, but I know that the website
uses Shusha and
> padma does have methods to transform Shusha to Unicode.
So, how can I
> tell padma not to look for any tags/ encodings of this
page and go ahead
>  transform whatever contents are there into unicode,
assuming that it
> is in Shusha.


You have to do this manually.

Thanks,
Nagarjuna
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

On 7/7/2007 07:18 PM India Time, _Nagarjuna Venna_ wrote:

> You are welcome to write a manual. I just don't have
the cycles to do
> it. I agree with your arguments in general and it is
unfortunate that
> no one can do it.

OK. I will make a manual sort of thing depending on what I
understand 
about the working of padma and send that to this list.
Members can 
suggest what more needs to be included.

>> If a user has specifically selected some Padma
related option, then
>> trust that user is right and it is padma which
could not find something
>> that it was looking for.
> 
> That's a philosophical point.



> All these are well known bugs in ITRANS transformer. No
one really
> uses it, so they never got fixed. I really need help in
fixing this
> stuff - so I would appreciate any help.

OK. I hope that in the process of preparing a manual, such
issues will 
get discussed upon and would get sorted out.

I have made conversion maps of several fonts and I wanted to
add them to 
Padma, but whenever started looking into padma.jar, the
thing seemed 
complicated to me and I stopped. Hope this time I would go
ahead to some 
way.
-- 
Rawat
_______________________________________________
Padma mailing list
Padmamozdev.org
http://mozde
v.org/mailman/listinfo/padma

On 7/7/2007 07:20 PM India Time, _Nagarjuna Venna_ wrote:

>> however when i select something and rightclick I
also get the following
>> options:
>>
>> ISCII to Bengali
>> ISCII to Gurmukhi
>> ITRANS to Gurmukhi
>> TAB to Tamil
>>
>> I even went to config editor in TB and set those
options to false which
>> I didn't need (somehow they were appearing as true
in config editor even
>> when they were appearing off in padma options).
Still it is showing the
>> above unwanted options.
>>
>> How to remove these?
>>
>> Thanks.
> 
> This is a bug fixed in 0.4.11. Please try with that
version.
> 

I have 0.4.11

Could you please check whether the change was done in TB
version also, 
or did that happen only in FF version. I assume xpi-s are
different for 
both versions. If not, then, this bug survives in TB.

Thanks.
-- 
Rawat

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