Re: Re: Weird little problem!

Just a clarification...

On Saturday 07 April 2007 12:32, Don Ferguson wrote:
&gt; Greetings "Henry G Belot"; < hbelot%40ix.netcom.com">hbelotix.netcom.com>
> HB> Styles aren't optional in Word.
&gt;
> They are not optional in PageStream either! If you don't use
> your own styles or the ones that come with the unpacked
> version, then <No Style> is in effect.

But <No Style> is exactly that, it is no style. PgS has to have a way to tell
you that there is no style and that is how it does it. With Word there *is*
no option. There is *always* a style in effect. I can sort of understand MS
on this point: styles are so good to use and yet few people use them because
they either don't know about them or don't understand them. So MS forces the
use of styles.

Not recommended, but you can create a PgS document without ever using a style.

Tim Doty

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Tim:

> ...But <No Style> is exactly that, it is no style. PgS has to have a way to tell
> you that there is no style and that is how it does it. With Word there *is*
> no option. There is *always* a style in effect. I can sort of understand MS
> on this point: styles are so good to use and yet few people use them because
> they either don't know about them or don't understand them. So MS forces the
> use of styles.
>

I haven't had a chance to exercise this observation much, and I could be
wrong, but the "Normal" style in Word does seem to equate in its own way
to <No Style> in PageStream. Without further experimentation I can't
confirm this, but "Normal" seems to generate the "style," "Default
Paragraph Font."; The latter is not editable but I think it changes when
you edit "Normal." If you try to edit "Default Paragraph Style,&quot; Word
will take you to "Normal" instead. My inference so far is that the font
attributes defined in "Normal" progagate to Word styles where the font
hasn't been otherwise defined. I don't know as yet whether if you
defined other attributes in the "Normal" style, such as paragraph
spacing, these would become defaults as well.

I made this discovery shortly after my last post to Don. Like
PageStream's <No Style>, it does seem to account for the fact that if
you insert text at the end of a document, the font frequently changes to
the default even if another style seems to be in effect.

So, like <No Style>, "Normal" appears to be a paragraph style with
special attributes that set it aside from the others. In essence, there
seem to be exceptionally rare instances where you can be writing in Word
without a full paragraph style in effect. In both applications, however,
the design is meant to encourage the use of Paragraph Styles.
Shift-clicking on <No Style> almost forces you to create a named style.

Further testing or research may bring me to different conclusions, however.

I agree that styles are a two-edged sword. By and large, it's far better
to get into the habit of using styles for everything. And yet it's often
convenient not to do so, more so in layout work than in word processing.

HB

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Greetings "Tim Doty" < drakki%40rollanet.org">drakkirollanet.org>
On 07/04/2007 at 14:05 you wrote concerning
Re: [PageStreamSupport] Re: Weird little problem!

Hi Tim,

<<snip>>
TD>> They are not optional in PageStream either! If you
TD&gt;> don't use
TD&gt;> your own styles or the ones that come with the
TD&gt;> unpacked
TD>> version, then <No Style> is in effect.

TD> But <No Style> is exactly that, it is no style.

In my understanding, the above is simply false.

TD> PgS has
TD&gt; to have a way to tell you that there is no style and
TD&gt; that is how it does it.

No. That is misleading.

TD&gt; With Word there *is* no option.
TD> There is *always* a style in effect. I can sort of
TD>; understand MS on this point: styles are so good to use
TD&gt; and yet few people use them because they either don't
TD> know about them or don't understand them. So MS forces
TD> the use of styles.

Cannot comment on Microsoft Word. PageStream does not force
one to use "paragraph styles&quot; or "character styles&quot; but
....

TD>; Not recommended, but you can create a PgS document
TD> without ever using a style.

PageStream uses both a "paragraph style"; and "character
style" and each is given the name (title) <No Style>. As
I'm sure you know, one can modify or redefine <No Style> by
going to

File -> Preferences... -> Type

and click on the 'Edit...' button. On doing so, up pops a
window in which the 'Para' field can be set to <No Style>.
At this point, you can modify <No Style> to your heart's
content. Of course, whether or not you change the "default"
version of <No Style> set by Deron is up to you. I have
modified <No Style> from the default several times. For
example, some of my settings for <No Style> have included:

Font = Times-Normal
Size = 11pt Width = 100%
Lang = British
Alignment = Left
Leading = 14pt Fixed
......

I'm not suggesting the above is a good choice, I merely wish
to point out that those settings are NOT the default
settings that come with PageStream.

If in the Navigator window one chooses 'New' and accepts the
default values with 'OK', then Pagestream opens an
'Untitled' document. If one creates a text box (frame) and
begins typing in that text frame, then PageStream uses the
paragraph style <No Style> to set your text UNTIL you tell
it otherwise. If you have not told PageStream what
paragraph style to use, what other style could it possibly
use?

Conceiveably it could use some fixed and predefined style,
and in a loose sense it does. That "fixed and predefined"
style is <No Style> although this particular style is NOT
fixed but is predefined when one installs PageStream. If
you click the '¶' button in the Edit Palette, then you will
clearly see that PageStream has applied <No Style> to your
text.

If you click the 'C' button in the Edit Palette, then
PageStream will reveal that you are using character style
&lt;No Style> and will display some of the characteristics
related to <No Style>, including:

Font, Font size, Font width, Leading, Tracking, etc.

Having <No Style> around can be very useful, even if you use
several personalized styles and really do not intend to use
<No Style> anywhere in your document. For example, somehow
you screw up in a paragraph and things are behaving
weirdly. Applying <No Style> to the paragraph 'may' get you
back to a state of sanity from which you can start all
over.

I'm glad you made the comments above, because it got me
thinking about character styles, and at last I'm beginning
to see how they can be gainfully used. It pays to go back
and read the manual now and then!

In particular, I have concluded that my long-standing choice
of parameters for <No Style> are poor! By the way,
'long-standing' refers to 'years'.

Why? Because until now I've patterned <No Style> after the
paragraph style that I usually (not always) start a
document with. I call it BodyFlat. The trouble is that
BodyFlat and <No Style> are almost indistinguishable; i.e.,
the appearance of text when styled with either is almost
indistinguishable. At times this can be misleading, and
hence I've decided to reset <No Style> so that it is a bit
outlandish, i.e., will be visually recognizable if it has
crept into a document through my carelessness. We'll see
how this new regime works out.

Cheers Don (Green Dragon)
--

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