Don Ferguson wrote:
> Greetings "Theo Zweers" <tjzwrs xs4all.nl>
> On 21/06/2008 at 06:14 you wrote concerning
> Re: [PageStreamSupport] Complex mathematical formulas
>
>
> Hi Theo,
>
> Math formulae! Bloody Oath!! 
>
Hi Don!
Mmmmm... It's not nothing, I agree.
>
> TZ>> I think this last approach is better
(placing drawings), because there
> TZ>> are sometimes roots, which I want to spread
an upperline (opposite of an
> TZ>> underline) to 'show' which part of the
formula belongs to the root.
> TZ>> Like:
> TZ>> _______
> TZ>> √ a^2 + b^2 ^| (the two's are
supposed to be superscript)
>
> Where you have referred to "an upperline" the
usual terminology would be
> 'overbar' or 'overbaring'. It appears that you want to
use the traditional
> notation to express
>
Well I didn't know how it's called, so I did some guesswork
and called
it an upperline.
Ok, it's an overbaring. Thanks.
> sqrt(a^2 + b^2)
>
> where sqrt() alludes to the "square root
function" and (x^2) is used in place of
> the usual "x to the power 2"; i.e., the
character '^' is used to express
> exponentiation and treated as a binary operator (like
'+' and '*'). In most of
> PageStream fonts you can find a "square root
symbol" [ Control-D 8730 ], for
> example, Times-Normal includes it and so does
Triumvirate-Normal. Using
>
> _/
>
> in place of the square root symbol [ Control-D 8730 ]
you can then 'fake' the
> formula above in the form
>
> _/(a«2-superscript» + b«2-superscript»)
>
> which is good for inline writing, but is not the real
thing. The necessary
> parenthetical pair '(' and ')' don't look 'right'.
>
Agreed.
> If you insist on the real thing, then it is harder. I
realize that the desired
> expression could be created via some vector drawing
software, like Professional
> Draw, which is the only one I've used, and then load
the drawing into
> PageStream. I take it that is the procedure you have
followed.
>
I do it (this!  ) all in
PGS!
> However, you can do fairly complicated things directly
in PageStream. For
> example, suppose you want to build the 7-level (about)
expression
>
> sqrt(a^2 + b^2)/[x^(n^2)]
>
> You can 'do' the above by:
>
> 1- create a text box which will allow for at least
three line of text
>
> 2- enter 'sqrt' as -/ [ Control-D 8730 ] and then make
-/ larger than normal;
> e.g., for 11/14 I would go to about 16/14. Also the -/
guy from Triumvirate is
> preferable to the one from Times, for me.
>
I use Arial an equivalent of Triumvirate (it's Windows,
ehh).
What do you mean with 11/14 or 16/14? The size of the text?
The sqrt character bigger than the rest of the expression
'text'? When
this is correct, I use this.
> 3- enter the expression «a2 + b2» then apply
superscripting to the two
> occurrences of '2'. No parentheses here. You've created
«a^2 + b^2» in
> traditional format.
>
> 4- create a horizontal segment of the appropriate
length to cover the expression
> in 3-
>
> 5- move the horzontal segment of 4- until it matches
the top of -/. To make them
> match, you'll probably have to make the horizontal
segment thicker and use high
> magnification to get the 'joining' with -/ correct.
You've created sqrt(a^2 +
> b^2) in the traditional notation.
>
> 6- create a blank line below the expression in 3- and
begin to build the x^(n^2)
> guy on the third line.
>
> 7- begin with xn2 and apply superscripting to the char
'2'. Here I cannot get
> PageStream to apply superscripting to «n^2». So do
>
Me too cannot superscript n^2!
> 8- apply "custom *subscripting*" to 'x' in
the expression «xn^2» with
> horizontal = 100% and vertical = 100%
> You can try other values which you may prefer. So
«x^(n^2)» is created.
>
I'm lost here. What do you do with the 'x'?
What horizontal and vertical (= 100% or other values) do you
use?
I made x^(n^2) with different text size. The x I made
subscript with a
larger textsize than n^2.
The 2 I made superscript. Now I only have to resize the n to
a smaller
textsize to match them all visually.
A nice trick if you meant this, and if not: the idea was
made by you!
Only some clumsy fiddling with the sizing.
> 9- apply the space character so that «x^(n^2)» is
centered nicely under «a^2 +
> b^2»
>
> 10- create another horizontal segment and place it
below «a^2 + b^2» and above
> «x^(n^2)». Thicken, lengthen, shorten this segment, if
necessary.
>
> 11- group the three object that you now have: the text
object (three lines), the
> 'bar' that matches -/ and the 'bar' in the middle
(vertically speaking).
>
> 12- place the grouped object where appropriate.
>
The only draw back is that you cannot edit the placed group
anymore! Not
even the text.
(OK, there is a trick. Make the PGS-document into a PDF and
copy the
text from the PDF. Now you have only the text, but it's
better then nothing)
> I grant that step 10- can be replaced by using the
blank character and
> underlining it, but I don't like the result.
>
No, underline only works with expressions without a
subscript or
superscript (the underline jumps with them).
And the underline has another draw back for me: if the text
color is
other than black, the underline persists in black...
> Yes, the above is clumsy, but Pagestream was not
designed to do the mumbo-jumbo
> of math-physics. Your main dissatisfaction may be and
excess of white space
> vertically; i.e., too much whitespace below «a^2 + b^2»
and above the 'middle'
> bar or too much below the middle bar and too much above
«x^(n^2)». It is easy
> to move the 'middle' bar up (or down), but it is
trickier to make «x^(n^2)»
> grow taller, but you can do it with "custom"
superscripting and subscripting.
>
> Once you get it right for
>
> sqrt(a^2 + b^2)/[x^(n^2)]
>
> then it is easy to modify the above to create a nice
>
> sqrt(a^n + b^n)/[x^(y^z)]
>
> and so forth. As you increase the number of levels,
PageStream struggles, and so
> does the compositor.
>
> A long time ago, someone told me about a program that
would create such objects
> reasonably well. Can't recall its name, and, although I
used it a bit, it was
> not easy to use but did have some advantages. For
examples, it would handle
> matrices (traditional row-column notation) fairly
well.
>
>
> TZ> That looks almost good.
> TZ> The accent circumflex (caret) or shouldn't be
there and the vertical
> TZ> line should be beside the last uppercase two.
>
> I don't follow your comment about "the vertical
line."
>
Well I did look how the e-mail returned to me (visual), and
I comment this.
The vertical line (bar) 'ends' the overbaring visually.
> Some time ago I recall Deron talking about slipping in
aspects of TEX (Don Knuth
> stuff). Did this ever happen in the Linux/Windows
versions?
>
Well sort of. See Tim's answer.
I wondering if you and I find it workable, because some text
(characters: integral / { / }) are huge.
But it (becomes) a start, when Deron has more time to
spend.
It's not high on my list for PGS...
>
> Cheers Don (Green Dragon)
>
Thanks Don for the detailed answer! I tried it to see if you
have tricks
I didn't had!
Theo
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