future of LiveUser

Hi,

I would like to start a small thread to think about some
steps to go on
with LiveUser developement.

Are there any active LU developers listening to this list?



My basic idea is to move to PHP 5 and the second is to
support some of
the "modern" ORMs like Doctrine and Propel.

I also think we have to change the way the filter works.
Imagine if you
use Propel or Doctrine these nice packages have their own
built in
filter magic.

We should do a further split with the admin package and move
the storage
containers into separate packages with some separate
features.

Any ideas how / why / what could be improved?


I guess the biggest question is whether one should do a
major change in
the existing packages or to start with a LiveUser2 branch?
IMHO we
should start with LiveUser2 and do a bit of nice PHP 5
refactoring!?

Regards,
Matthias

-- 
PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:11:04 +0200, Matthias Nothhaft
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I would like to start a small thread to think about
some steps to go on
> with LiveUser developement.
> 
> Are there any active LU developers listening to this
list? 

Yes

> 
> My basic idea is to move to PHP 5 and the second is to
support some of
> the "modern" ORMs like Doctrine and Propel.

Why PHP 5, I see no major benefits changing over at the
moment.
 
> I also think we have to change the way the filter
works. Imagine if you
> use Propel or Doctrine these nice packages have their
own built in
> filter magic.

Nothing stopping you from doing that without any overhaul of
LU, iirc we 
have a SQL.php file that handles most of the query parts
(queries the 
DBAL LU has that redirects it to the proper dbal, factory
method)

You could make your own SQL.php file (named something else,
one specially 
for Propel for example), only thing you'd have to make sure
is that it 
outputs the same as the SQL one

> We should do a further split with the admin package and
move the storage
> containers into separate packages with some separate
features.

The idea of the containers is not to provide special
features, they are 
suppose to be a kinda DBAL on top of other DBALs iirc

> Any ideas how / why / what could be improved?
> 
> 
> I guess the biggest question is whether one should do a
major change in
> the existing packages or to start with a LiveUser2
branch? IMHO we
> should start with LiveUser2 and do a bit of nice PHP 5
refactoring!?

First, major refactoring = do it in LU2, even tho LU isn't
stable then 
too many people would be using it in production.

Again what PHP 5 features, I've discussed this with Lukas
before and iirc 
nothing important came up in terms of required PHP 5
features, if doing 
ppp and exceptions is the idea then I vote for no, if you
have any other 
ideas in mind do share.

This post isn't suppose to be negative but well no need to
update a 
package that already is "solid" on PHP 4 and doing
a "refactoring" would 
only bring sugar instead of real usage of PHP 5 

-- 
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people

-- 
PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php

+1 with which reasons ?  I mean
Helgi stated something rather
explicit why it doesn't have to be refactored to php5. iirc,
LU is
even E_STRICT compatible but i'm speaking out of my hat.

On 4/10/07, Jens Kleikamp <jenscodes-concepts.com>
wrote:
> Matthias Nothhaft schrieb:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would like to start a small thread to think
about some steps to go on
> > with LiveUser developement.
> >
> > Are there any active LU developers listening to
this list? 
> >
> >
> > My basic idea is to move to PHP 5 and the second
is to support some of
> > the "modern" ORMs like Doctrine and
Propel.
>
> Sounds very good to me.
>
> I am a very satisfied LU user for years and have built
my own simple
> php5-only fork of LU. (only the auth part).
>
> +1 for LU2 php5
>
> just my 0.001,
> Jens
>
>
> >
> > I also think we have to change the way the filter
works. Imagine if you
> > use Propel or Doctrine these nice packages have
their own built in
> > filter magic.
> >
> > We should do a further split with the admin
package and move the storage
> > containers into separate packages with some
separate features.
> >
> > Any ideas how / why / what could be improved?
> >
> >
> > I guess the biggest question is whether one should
do a major change in
> > the existing packages or to start with a LiveUser2
branch? IMHO we
> > should start with LiveUser2 and do a bit of nice
PHP 5 refactoring!?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Matthias
> >
>
> --
> PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php
>
>


-- 
David Coallier,
Founder & Software Architect,
Agora Production (http://agoraproduction.com
)
51.42.06.70.18

-- 
PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php

Matthias Nothhaft wrote:

> My basic idea is to move to PHP 5 and the second is to
support some of
> the "modern" ORMs like Doctrine and Propel.

FYI: Konsta (lead of Doctrine) has started something like
this already.

regards,
Lukas

-- 
PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php

Matthias Nothhaft wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to start a small thread to think about
some steps to go on
> with LiveUser developement.
> 
> Are there any active LU developers listening to this
list? 

yes 

> 
> My basic idea is to move to PHP 5 and the second is to
support some of
> the "modern" ORMs like Doctrine and Propel.

Writing a doctrine driver should not be too difficult, based
on the fact
that there is already a PDO, MDB2 ones

> I also think we have to change the way the filter
works. Imagine if you
> use Propel or Doctrine these nice packages have their
own built in
> filter magic.

LU tries to be layer-independent so it means it has to use
its own
filter magic because some layers might not provide it. You
also have to
implement filtering if you are writing your own layer.

> We should do a further split with the admin package and
move the storage
> containers into separate packages with some separate
features.

Having subpackages for containers does make some sense, it
complicates
installation a bit though so we'd have to see.

> Any ideas how / why / what could be improved?

I think the biggest issue is documentation. I'm unwilling to
move to 1.0
without some documentation that explains how to set it up as
it is a
beastly task.

There is also a lack of an admin gui, the current lu_admin
set of
classes is somewhat unsatisfying.

> 
> I guess the biggest question is whether one should do a
major change in
> the existing packages or to start with a LiveUser2
branch? IMHO we
> should start with LiveUser2 and do a bit of nice PHP 5
refactoring!?

I thought about it too. One of the benefits that i can see
would be to
have cleaner code in some areas. But as others mentionned
i'm not sure
it would bring such a huge value, LU runs fine under 5.2.

I think documentation, admin gui and performance
improvements are what
we need to concentrate on. Once we have that I'm all for
some
refactoring (liveuser2)  

Arnaud

-- 
PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php

Arnaud Limbourg wrote:
> Matthias Nothhaft wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to start a small thread to think about
some steps to go on
>> with LiveUser developement.
>>
>> Any ideas how / why / what could be improved?
> 
> I think the biggest issue is documentation. I'm
unwilling to move to 1.0
> without some documentation that explains how to set it
up as it is a
> beastly task.
> 
> There is also a lack of an admin gui, the current
lu_admin set of
> classes is somewhat unsatisfying.

IMHO a good admin gui should integrate with the framework /
cms you use
to really benefit from LiveUser!

E.g. I could imagine to write a Symfony plugin. 


>> I guess the biggest question is whether one should
do a major change in
>> the existing packages or to start with a LiveUser2
branch? IMHO we
>> should start with LiveUser2 and do a bit of nice
PHP 5 refactoring!?
> 
> I thought about it too. One of the benefits that i can
see would be to
> have cleaner code in some areas. But as others
mentionned i'm not sure
> it would bring such a huge value, LU runs fine under
5.2.
> 
> I think documentation, admin gui and performance
improvements are what
> we need to concentrate on. Once we have that I'm all
for some
> refactoring (liveuser2)  

Hm, maybe we could provide some "frequently used quick
start
configurations" ?

or an additional configuration layer that hides some of the
config stuff
(e.g. aliasing) but makes it very easy to set it up with
default settings!?


And what about the open bugs - any ideas how to fix them?
AFAIK there
are some problems with the filter implementation. Are you
all happy with
it or any suggestions what / how to improve that?

Regards,
Matthias

-- 
PEAR Development Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub
.php