Re: Better Perl

Paul Makepeace wrote:
> On 4/7/08, David Cantrell <davidcantrell.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Any perl businesses with
multi-<s>billion</s> million, even, dollar
valuations?
>>  >
>>  > Morgan Stanley doesn't count 
>>
>>
>> Why doesn't it count?  It's a business that uses
perl.  Here's a few
>>  other perl-using businesses:
>>
>>  * Amazon
>>  * the Catholic church
>>  * Microsoft
> 
> There's a difference between 'business relies on X' and
'business uses
> X'. Sure MS use Perl, so do Google, and Amazon. Do
either company
> _remotely_ rely on it? No. (I'd be curious to hear from
people working
> in finance who use other languages what perl's role in
the finance
> world actually is. There seems to generally be a lot of
overstatement
> of perl's use in certain businesses in this thread.)

I work for a billion dollar company which relies on Perl. It
is used all over the shop -- 
infrastructure, engineering, testing, HR, marketing, sales,
etc., and it is included in some of the 
products we sell. It's part of standard infrastructure of
every server that IT and engineering sets 
up. IOS probably can't build without it.  It's just
everywhere.

> 
> IIRC the thread was about making a better perl, which
produced the
> sentiment that "Perl is fine,
thankyouverymuch" and yet here we are
> with perl not really being all that critical to very
many people's
> businesses. And for the relative few that are, they're
hardly shining
> examples of Wikipedia/Facebook/etc stature. Sure,
perl's a useful
> tool, but it's not critical.

Cisco is bigger, and Perl is critical to the company. But -
so?  BFD.


> 
> ...
> 
> Insisting that perl is core to businesses isn't
necessarily in
> dispute, it just doesn't move us any closer to a
better, more
> compelling perl. Not seeing any particular motivation
to move beyond
> the status quo is the signal of a culture putting
itself into
> maintenance mode.
> 

Who said nobody wanted to move beyond the status quo?  Other
than you, of course. I'm struggling to 
see the point of this discussion.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Jonathan Peterson
<JPetersonbmjgroup.com> wrote:
> > Paul Makepeace wrote:
>  > > On 4/7/08, David Cantrell <davidcantrell.org.uk> wrote:
>  > >>
>  > >>> Any perl businesses with
multi-<s>billion</s> million, even,
>  > dollar valuations?
>  > >>  >
>  > >>  > Morgan Stanley doesn't count 
>
>  FWIW, I had a chat with my local tame recruitment
agent. His view of the
>  world was:
>
>  Python - little or no demand, only had one python job
in the last month

http://idletogether.com/python-to-be-the-future
-of-web-languages/

Interesting to see how/if that changes.

>  Ruby - small but growing noticeably, had 4-5 in the
last month
>  PHP - big and growing fast, and has had several 'good'
(his words) Java
>  devs switch to PHP recently. Some large outfits now
actively recruiting
>  'real' programmers and asking them to use PHP.

Hardly a surprise, it's a great choice for writing web apps.
It gets
the job done. Sure, it's not pretty, and in some places is
downright
ugly but it gets the job done like _no_ other language:
simplicity &
ease of deployment.

I see a lot of parallels between PHP and MySQL  - attracts
plenty of
scorn from the ivory towers while getting on with the job of
powering
most of the web and making its users a metric fkton of $$.
Also like
MySQL in that it gradually morphed into a pretty decent
product that
the ivory towers are grudgingly running out of reasons to
criticise
(presumably while still debating how to get their dusty
PostgreSQL
instance to actually replicate...)

>  Java - big and static, waiting to see what effect the
(highly probable)
>  city layoffs will have in a month or two's time.
>  Perl - small and static (4-5 / month), still used by a
small number of
>  very big companies, who seem to account for most of
it.

Seems that way here.

P

>  This sample is from one of the big 5 agencies, but
only the north-central
>  bond area, which is heavily dominated by publishing
and (traditional)
>  media companies.
>
>  Make of it what you will. Most interesting I thought
was his belief that
>  people who previously would have written off PHP were
now attempting to
>  use it, but to use it like a proper language.
>
>  My recent playing with Ruby came to griding halt whan
I noticed it STILL
>  didn't do unicode. Also, if you look at Ruby's
Net::SMTP and Perl's
>  Net::SMTP Perl's is just so much nicer - better
documentation, better
>  designed, does more stuff. It really shows what an
extra decade of
>  maturity means.


>
>  J
>
> 
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> Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > On 4/7/08, David Cantrell <davidcantrell.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Any perl businesses with
multi-<s>billion</s> million, even, 
> dollar valuations?
> >>  >
> >>  > Morgan Stanley doesn't count 

FWIW, I had a chat with my local tame recruitment agent. His
view of the 
world was:

Python - little or no demand, only had one python job in the
last month
Ruby - small but growing noticeably, had 4-5 in the last
month
PHP - big and growing fast, and has had several 'good' (his
words) Java 
devs switch to PHP recently. Some large outfits now actively
recruiting 
'real' programmers and asking them to use PHP.
Java - big and static, waiting to see what effect the
(highly probable) 
city layoffs will have in a month or two's time.
Perl - small and static (4-5 / month), still used by a small
number of 
very big companies, who seem to account for most of it.

This sample is from one of the big 5 agencies, but only the
north-central 
bond area, which is heavily dominated by publishing and
(traditional) 
media companies.

Make of it what you will. Most interesting I thought was his
belief that 
people who previously would have written off PHP were now
attempting to 
use it, but to use it like a proper language.

My recent playing with Ruby came to griding halt whan I
noticed it STILL 
didn't do unicode. Also, if you look at Ruby's Net::SMTP and
Perl's 
Net::SMTP Perl's is just so much nicer - better
documentation, better 
designed, does more stuff. It really shows what an extra
decade of 
maturity means.

J

____________________________________________________________
___________
The BMJ Group is one of the world's most trusted providers
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workers and patients www.bmjgroup.bmj.com.  This email and
any attachments are confidential.  If you have received this
email in error, please delete it and kindly notify us.  If
the email contains personal views then the BMJ Group accepts
no responsibility for these statements.  The recipient
should check this email and attachments for viruses because
the BMJ Group accepts no liability for any damage caused by
viruses.  Emails sent or received by the BMJ Group may be
monitored for size, traffic, distribution and content.  BMJ
Publishing Group Limited trading as BMJ Group.  A private
limited company, registered in England and Wales under
registration number 03102371.  Registered office: BMA House,
Tavistock Square, bond WC1H 9JR, UK.
____________________________________________________________
___________