graphical mailers - features and stability?

hi all,

I've stuck with evolution for years because it had a feature
i really
needed (Search Folders, updated in realtime).  I've had some
problems
with it eating email (recently, and maybe half a year ago),
so I'm sure
that it's not as reliable as I'd like it to be.

I look at kmail every once in a while (not with every
release,
necessarily, I don't look at KDE very often).  I just looked
again and
on Ubuntu Gutsy, it looks like it's finally got
realtime-updated search
folders.
 
I've used sylpheed before, and I just looked at Thunderbird
too, today.
I don't know if sylpheed has realtime-updated search
folders, I don't
really remember why I left sylpheed, but I don't think I'm
going back to
it.  Thunderbird, though, doesn't seem to have those
realtime search
folders.

I tend to do some pretty harsh things to my mailer (e.g.,
since I don't
currently run POP3/SMTP servers on my laptop, I run
bogofilter inside a
filter in the mailer, not from procmail, I also run a
duplicated email
finder (using formail) in an evolution filter (and yes, I
see that kmail
will find dups, although i haven't tested yet whether that
works if the
dup emails are in different folders, for instance, or if
it'll work in a
virtual [search] folder, since i can virtually aggregate
mail from
different folders into one virtual folder using a search).

Opinions on general stability (mailer should not lose email
that was
already in the mailbox, evolution did, although it was while
I was
updating evolution, so possibly two different evolution data
servers ran
and mangled the mbox), features (realtime updated search
folders that
stick around between sessions, can run random scripts as if
in procmail,
but inside the mailer's filters, etc).

I like kmail's ability to store mail in maildir format.  On
the other
hand, I'm running XFS, not reiserfs, so I worry about my
mail volume
(currently only around 50,000, but i remove some emails, and
I'm not
counting spam) and the number of individual files on the
disk putting
too much stress on the filesystem.  Experiences and tips
from people
with more than 50k email messages in maildir systems in
their home
directories would be appreciated.  i prefer POP3 instead of
keeping the
email in IMAP because, while I'm familiar with the arguments
for
IMAP being more flexible, etc, I've never had good
experiences with
IMAP searches, they've always been slow on my mail. 
Evolution is
reasonably fast (although it *could* be faster, maybe if the
email
were stored in a database instead and could take advantage
of, e.g.,
something like postgresql tsearch2 or the mysql equivalent,
or if
there were some really superior indexing in there). 

Come to that, what filesystems are recommended for
directories that
might hold 20,000 files?  Previously it was reiserfs, are
XFS or JFS
the new contenders?

tiger

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On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Gerald Timothy Quimpo
<bopolissimus.listsgmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I've used sylpheed before, and I just looked at
Thunderbird too, today.
>  I don't know if sylpheed has realtime-updated search
folders, I don't
>  really remember why I left sylpheed, but I don't think
I'm going back to
>  it.  Thunderbird, though, doesn't seem to have those
realtime search
>  folders.

Thunderbird 2.x has Saved Search which is the same as search
folders I
think.  I've used it before to mimic Gmail's labels:

htt
p://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/features

>  I tend to do some pretty harsh things to my mailer
(e.g., since I don't
>  currently run POP3/SMTP servers on my laptop, I run
bogofilter inside a
>  filter in the mailer, not from procmail, I also run a
duplicated email
>  finder (using formail) in an evolution filter (and
yes, I see that kmail
>  will find dups, although i haven't tested yet whether
that works if the
>  dup emails are in different folders, for instance, or
if it'll work in a
>  virtual [search] folder, since i can virtually
aggregate mail from
>  different folders into one virtual folder using a
search).

There are extensions that handle removing of duplicate
messages.  I
don't recall them being automatic nor usable under a
filter.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en
-US/thunderbird/search?q=remove+duplicate&status=4

Also found this solution below, but I haven't used it:

http://www.ghacks.net/2007/
05/18/automatically-remove-duplicate-mails-in-thunderbird/

-- 
Ealden Esto E. Escañan
http://blog.ealden.net
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On Sat, 2008-03-22 at 11:25 -0700, Ariz Jacinto wrote:
> maybe the more stable version of Evolution was the
previous one? 
> 
> kidding aside

actually, i'm pretty sure you're right and the updated
version broke
something.  

with the updated evolution, i'm also getting constant dying
of the
evolution mailer process. i can't figure out what the reason
is.  what
i'm seeing, for now, is that when i start evolution it
automatically
starts fetching mail (that's ok, that's how it's supposed to
work).  but
the fetching mail dialog is not yet visible (that's also
normal).
previously, when i'd click on the Send/Receive button, it
would just
make the fetching mail dialog visible.  now, most of the
time it just
crashes evolution.  then i start evolution again, and
remember to
not click on "Send/Receive" until the
"fetching mail" notification 
on the status bar goes away .  I still
get the occasional mailer
crash, but for those I really have no idea what the reason
is.

> have you tried archiving your mail, then updating
Evolution, and then
> restoring from archive? 

not yet.  it's already updated though (evolution i mean). 
likely what
i'll try next is to remove the .ibex.* and the *.ev-summary*
files and
then start evolution and wait for it to build all those
files again. i
may have a problem with one or another of those files being
corrupted.

> or perhaps the MUA is not the core of your problem,
maybe it's the
> mbox format. consider using a MUA that supports a
partitioned mail
> archive format although it won't give you any guarantee
against data
> loss but it can reduce the risk.

well, i'm considering switching to kmail/kontact, partly
because
that supports maildir (the ultimate partitioned mail archive
format 
and partly because it's finally usable for me
(virtual/search folders
that auto-update when the underlying mail messages are
modified).

i've already got "partitioned" email, since i have
many email
folders (real ones, not virtual/search ones) and filters to
populate
those folders.  this is why it was just the inbox that i
lost email
in.  ironic, that, since the inbox is the most important
mbox i've
got.  the mailing list and other folders are much less
important.
of course though, that's how murphy's law works.

> and with regards to full-text search, don't count on
using a mere SQL
> database. one of the best practices for implementing a
> high-performance full-text search is by using a search
engine like
> Lucene[1]. Take Xobni (inbox spelled backwards ^tm)[2]
as an example,
> it performs very well even Bill likes it[3]. it may
soon be available
> on other platforms unless MSFT acquire them first[4].
> 
> [1] lucene.apache.org
> [2] www.xobni.com
> [3]
www.xobni.com/blog/2008/02/11/bill-gates-demoes-xobni
> [4]
>
www.techcrunch.com/2008/02/29/microsoft-may-buy-email-startu
p-xobni

do any of those work with an imap server?  that's what i'd
use it for,
if i were to switch to either of those.  xobni is a
non-starter.
outlook plugin, but i'm on linux.

lucene is interesting, but i don't see any integration with
an imap server yet.  nor is it obvious how it would
integrate
with evolution or kmail or similar.  so i'm not going to be
able to work with that yet either.  i'm a parent now.  no
time
to hack up lucene-evolution integration.
iger


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On Sun, 2008-03-23 at 02:41 +0800, Ealden Escañan wrote:
> Thunderbird 2.x has Saved Search which is the same as
search folders I
> think.  I've used it before to mimic Gmail's labels:

thanks.  so one thing i use Virtual Folders (in evolution)
for is to
have a virtual folder of, for example, unread plug email. 
In the filter
I say look in the plug folder (the real folder, where my
mail filters
drop all plug mail, plug-misc is separate), and then show me
all email
that is unread (not exactly in those terms, since there's no
"not read"
status, but an equivalent that has some minor bugs, e.g.,
emails marked
important will show up).  the "search" is done in
realtime.  e.g., if i
were to go to the real plug folder and delete a single
unread email,
then the virtual folder's unread email count will be
decremented.

i think when i looked at thunderbird, it didn't do that
update in
realtime.  but i'll look at it again.  i haven't really been
testing
deeply.

anyone else on the list who manages 50k or more emails?  
i used to have a lot more than that, but i remove mailing 
list emails once in a while since there are many online
archives and google searches faster than evolution can .

> There are extensions that handle removing of duplicate
messages.  I
> don't recall them being automatic nor usable under a
filter.

ok.  

> https://addons.mozilla.org/en
-US/thunderbird/search?q=remove+duplicate&status=4
> 
> Also found this solution below, but I haven't used it:
> 
> http://www.ghacks.net/2007/
05/18/automatically-remove-duplicate-mails-in-thunderbird/

thanks!  i'll look at thunderbird again, and probably set up
a more
rigorous testing system (and actually spend some time doing
some real
testing, rather than toy/single email testing 

tiger

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