Feature request: Handling of im: URIs

Hi there!

Since there seems to be a rather short development phase
planned for
0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe the handling of
im: URIs
might make it into that release.

I believe that permanent, irc-like group chats are one of
the killer
features of Jabber that set it a side from other instant
messaging
networks. IRC is a nice thing, but we all now, that it's
mostly for
geeks. I think, that Jabber has the potential to bring IRC
goodness to
the mere mortal.  That's why
I would regard the handling of im: URIs
as an important feature to have.

I remember discussing this briefly on the Psi Groupchat a
while ago and
one of the devs mentioning, that he has already some code
for that
sitting in his development branch. So here is hoping, that
this code
might make it into 0.12! 

Regards!

Jan
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Jan Vornberger wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> Since there seems to be a rather short development
phase planned for
> 0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe the
handling of im: URIs
> might make it into that release.

It's required by RFC 3921, too. 

> I believe that permanent, irc-like group chats are one
of the killer
> features of Jabber that set it a side from other
instant messaging
> networks. IRC is a nice thing, but we all now, that
it's mostly for
> geeks. I think, that Jabber has the potential to bring
IRC goodness to
> the mere mortal.  That's why
I would regard the handling of im: URIs
> as an important feature to have.

Just curious: What does the im: URI scheme have to do with
persistent
groupchats?

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/


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Hi there!

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 07:05:38PM -0600, Peter Saint-Andre
wrote:
> Jan Vornberger wrote:
> > I believe that permanent, irc-like group chats are
one of the killer
> > features of Jabber that set it a side from other
instant messaging
> > networks. IRC is a nice thing, but we all now,
that it's mostly for
> > geeks. I think, that Jabber has the potential to
bring IRC goodness to
> > the mere mortal.  That's why
I would regard the handling of im: URIs
> > as an important feature to have.
> 
> Just curious: What does the im: URI scheme have to do
with persistent
> groupchats?

Oh, I should have made myself more clear here: In my
experience the act
of joining a groupchat is actually not that straightforward
for the
average newcomer to Jabber. In most clients you are asked
for a host
name and a channel name which means you need to understand
that
groupchats live on certain conference servers and how that
shows up in
its address. It is somewhat of a barrier.

If - instead - the user would be able to simply click on a
website on
a link saying 'join our groupchat' and be dropped into that
groupchat
without having to worry about where exactly this thing
lives, it would
be much more useable. Combined with a more streamlined
procedure of
'getting jabber' (and from what I can tell the redesign of
jabber.org
seems to take a big step into this direction) I can actually
see this
being a viable way for people to set up their own chat
room.
I would imagine some community website which tells its
members: Get
Jabber (some link) and join our new exciting groupchat (some
im: link)!

Just my 2 cents of vision for the Jabber future. 

Jan
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On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 09:00:29PM -0600, Peter Saint-Andre
wrote:
> I agree. I think you want support for xmpp: URIs. For
instance to join
> the jdev room on conference.jabber.org you would click
this link:
> 
> xmpp:jdevconference.jabber.org?join

Oh, I might have mixed things up. Yes, it seems I would
like
support for xmpp: URIs then. 

Jan
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On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:24, Jan Vornberger wrote:
> Since there seems to be a rather short development
phase planned for
> 0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe the
handling of im: URIs
> might make it into that release.

It's not one of the things I'm going to desperately try to
do for  
0.12, but it's about top of the things I'll try and do if I
have  
time. In fact, links were broken temporarily in SVN when my 

unfinished code accidentally got committed.

/K
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Am 02.11.2007 um 08:20 schrieb Kevin Smith:

> On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:24, Jan Vornberger wrote:
>> Since there seems to be a rather short development
phase planned for
>> 0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe the
handling of im: URIs
>> might make it into that release.
>
> It's not one of the things I'm going to desperately try
to do for
> 0.12, but it's about top of the things I'll try and do
if I have
> time. In fact, links were broken temporarily in SVN
when my
> unfinished code accidentally got committed.
>
As I want that feature too.
can I help anyhow?

Ciao Ephraim
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Am 02.11.2007 um 18:21 schrieb Ephraim Talrock:

>
> Am 02.11.2007 um 08:20 schrieb Kevin Smith:
>
>> On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:24, Jan Vornberger wrote:
>>> Since there seems to be a rather short
development phase planned for
>>> 0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe
the handling of im:  
>>> URIs
>>> might make it into that release.
>>
>> It's not one of the things I'm going to desperately
try to do for
>> 0.12, but it's about top of the things I'll try and
do if I have
>> time. In fact, links were broken temporarily in SVN
when my
>> unfinished code accidentally got committed.
>>
> As I want that feature too.
> can I help anyhow?
>
I mean the xmpp:URI support, not the im:URI support 

Ciao Ephraim


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On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 05:24:24PM -0600, Jan Vornberger
wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> Since there seems to be a rather short development
phase planned for
> 0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe the
handling of im: URIs
> might make it into that release.

Currently it seems not very likely. the darcs->svn switch
is slowing me
down a lot and some of the harder problems for the xmpp-uri
handling have
no code at all yet. Maybe ipc+single instance will be ready
for 0.12 but
xmpp uri handling would be quite some work still.

> 
> I believe that permanent, irc-like group chats are one
of the killer
> features of Jabber that set it a side from other
instant messaging
> networks. IRC is a nice thing, but we all now, that
it's mostly for
> geeks. I think, that Jabber has the potential to bring
IRC goodness to
> the mere mortal.  That's why
I would regard the handling of im: URIs
> as an important feature to have.

Yes, opening MUCs via alink from some community website
would be a very
nice thing. Disclosing the xmpp identity by clicking a
random link on some
site would be a disaster, though.

> 
> I remember discussing this briefly on the Psi Groupchat
a while ago and
> one of the devs mentioning, that he has already some
code for that
> sitting in his development branch. So here is hoping,
that this code
> might make it into 0.12! 
> 

I'll try to find my timemachine, but i think it burned out
for good last
time i tried to use it ;)

 - Martin 
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On 2 Nov 2007, at 17:21, Ephraim Talrock wrote:
>> On 1 Nov 2007, at 23:24, Jan Vornberger wrote:
>>> Since there seems to be a rather short
development phase planned for
>>> 0.12 I'd like to express my hopes that maybe
the handling of im:  
>>> URIs
>>> might make it into that release.
>> It's not one of the things I'm going to desperately
try to do for
>> 0.12, but it's about top of the things I'll try and
do if I have
>> time. In fact, links were broken temporarily in SVN
when my
>> unfinished code accidentally got committed.
> As I want that feature too.
> can I help anyhow?

I may have misunderstood what you wanted. I thought you
meant handling  
of xmpp: links within Psi, whereas now I guess you meant
using Psi as  
the default handler for system xmpp: links. The latter is
Textshell's  
baby in the IPC stuff. If you're interested in the former,
it  
shouldn't be too hard.

/K
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On Nov 9, 2007 3:59 PM, Kevin Smith <kevinkismith.co.uk> wrote:
> I may have misunderstood what you wanted. I thought you
meant handling
> of xmpp: links within Psi, whereas now I guess you
meant using Psi as
> the default handler for system xmpp: links. The latter
is Textshell's
> baby in the IPC stuff. If you're interested in the
former, it
> shouldn't be too hard.

Mmm, personally if getting xmpp links to work correctly
with-in Psi is
easy, then I think we should go for that.  (by that I mean
open-new-chat window to jid and/or add jid to roster and/or
join muc
by clicking a link from an x-html message - or right click
choose
option from auto-htmlized plain text message)

Once the xmpp handler is complete within Psi the external
xmpp uri
handler can just hook-in to that 'for free'.

-- 
- Norman Rasmussen
 - Email: normanrasmussen.co.za
 - Home page: http://norman.rasmusse
n.co.za/
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On Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:17:05PM +0200, Norman Rasmussen
wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2007 3:59 PM, Kevin Smith <kevinkismith.co.uk> wrote:
> > I may have misunderstood what you wanted. I
thought you meant handling
> > of xmpp: links within Psi, whereas now I guess you
meant using Psi as
> > the default handler for system xmpp: links. The
latter is Textshell's
> > baby in the IPC stuff. If you're interested in the
former, it
> > shouldn't be too hard.
> 
> Mmm, personally if getting xmpp links to work correctly
with-in Psi is
> easy, then I think we should go for that.

That's mainly the missing part of the current code. And it's
not quite that
easy because we need to do it in an secure and unobstrusiv
way.
And i didn't see any xmpp / im uris send via xhtml-im or
normal chat
messages yet, so i think it's not really higher priority
than gettig the
ipc and this work.


>  (by that I mean
> open-new-chat window to jid and/or add jid to roster
and/or join muc
> by clicking a link from an x-html message - or right
click choose
> option from auto-htmlized plain text message)

If you like to work on this and you will keep all the small
problems
(privacy, usable ui, authority component, multiple accouts,
etc) in mind
that's a nicely isolated task. I even got some code, but
it's currently not
in a state where i feel it's safe or sane enough, but i
didn't review that
code deeply enough to really know much is already done...
i guess we could do some specing out of this in the muc some
time...


> 
> Once the xmpp handler is complete within Psi the
external xmpp uri
> handler can just hook-in to that 'for free'.

sure, ipc and actual handling of the data passed by ipc are
nicely
orthognal tasks in this case.

 - Martin
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On Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 11:04:29AM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre
wrote:
> textshell-I1QKlOneutronstar.dyndns.org wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 04:17:05PM +0200, Norman
Rasmussen wrote:
> >> On Nov 9, 2007 3:59 PM, Kevin Smith
<kevinkismith.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> I may have misunderstood what you wanted.
I thought you meant handling
> >>> of xmpp: links within Psi, whereas now I
guess you meant using Psi as
> >>> the default handler for system xmpp:
links. The latter is Textshell's
> >>> baby in the IPC stuff. If you're
interested in the former, it
> >>> shouldn't be too hard.
> >> Mmm, personally if getting xmpp links to work
correctly with-in Psi is
> >> easy, then I think we should go for that.
> > 
> > That's mainly the missing part of the current
code. And it's not quite that
> > easy because we need to do it in an secure and
unobstrusiv way.
> > And i didn't see any xmpp / im uris send via
xhtml-im or normal chat
> > messages yet, so i think it's not really higher
priority than gettig the
> > ipc and this work.
> 
> In general I think that xmpp: URIs will be found on web
pages. So for
> instance you might find links like this:
> 
> <a href='xmpp:jdevconference.jabber.org?join'>jdev
chatroom</a>
> 
> It would be good for the browser to pass that URI along
to Psi and for
> Psi to do the right thing (in this case, prompt the
user to join the
> chatroom).
> 
> I don't think that IM users will send these URIs very
often. We have
> better ways to handle such use cases natively over
Jabber (chatroom
> invitations, roster item exchanges, and the like).
> 

right, that's what i meant. for me, xmpp uri handling is
interesting mostly
with ipc and hooked up in the OS/browser uri handling
settings.

btw, is there any recommendations for handling xmpp uri:s in
a secure way?
there's a lot potential for information disclosure and
privacy violations
if implemented naively... 

 - Martin
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