about version 0.6 / my current experiences

Hi Ruben,

First of all thanks for your input!

Ruben Waitz / Amtex wrote:
> I've played around with red5 and gained some
experience with java package
> development for Red5 ("Application.class").
> 
> First of all Red5 is a great product but I'm very
curious about the ease of
> general usage with it in production environments:
> - for the server: installing/configuring/updating/etc;
> - for applications: deploying/configuring/updating;

Well, Red5 currently is mainly targeted for developers, so
there might be
a few rough edges in productive use.

> I noticed that it's quite a job to deploy a new
application with mysql
> support in a (remote) Red5 production environment:
> - add the application class (helloWorld.class) to
red5.jar
> - configure all settings (xml/properties files)
> - add mysql-connector-java.*.jar to the server to get
MySQL access
> - add mysql jar to "wrapper.conf" (windows)
or pass classpath option with
> mysql jar to the java executable
> - restart the server.....

You can actually deploy your application but adding a new
folder to the
"webapps" directory with the following
sub-folders:

WEB-INF        -> configuration files
   |-- lib     -> *.jar files
   |-- classes -> compiled classes

Of course you will have to adjust the configuration files
depending
on the database you are using, but the .class and .jar files
should
be used automatically during startup of your application.
There should be no need to change any Red5 files (besides
network
settings).  Note to self: this needs to be documented
better!

Restarting is required as Red5 doesn't load new
applications when
already running.

What would you like to improve here?  Or better: how would
you like
to deploy your application?

> Will there be a management interface (e.g.
webinterface) available in the
> future to configure Red5? (A kind of 'webmin'
solution to make life a little
> easier?)

Some sort of management interface is planned, but we
currently don't know
how this will look like.  Ideas welcome ;)

> I think version 0.6 (ref: roadmap) might deal with some
of my notices, but
> maybe you can do something with my findings.

Yep, we will add a lot of administrator supporting tools and
documentation
in later versions.  For easier application development,
scripting support
will also help a lot.

> (P.s. Joachim, I agree with you that shared objects are
supported from the
> trunk v0.5. I didn't know that...)

SharedObjects are supported in 0.4.* as well, however the
support for
serverside listeners is new and will only be available
starting in 0.5.

Joachim

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Thanks answerering Joachim.

I'll have to test the 'WEB-INF/classes/*.jar' method.
In the courses at 'ht
tp://www.flashextensions.com/index.php?page=free' (20+ 
tutorials) the teacher (Fred?) explicitly said that you'll
have to add your 
own class file in the jar file to let it work.
I think that it only works if you register the app in
build.xml and 
recompile Red5 with Ant completely.  

So you are saying if I turn helloWorld.class into
helloWorld.jar and put it 
into WEB-INF/classes it should work? 
And also leave red5.jar untouched? That would be very
nice...! That way I 
could reside mysql-connector-java.*.jar there too.
Continuing on that, it should also be possible to enable
'log4j.properties' 
for each individual application (in its own log file).

You asked me how I would like to deploy an application.
Let's say there's a production Linux server and a Windows
XP development 
desktop both running Red5.
I think of the following scene:
- On the desktop I create an app (helloWorld.class). I run
and test it from 
Eclipse.
- When satisfied I decide to take it in production
- Via a webinterface (e.g. port 5080) I log into 'Red5
Administrator'
- A Wizard starts and asks me several questions: 
	* name of app
	* virtual host name to run at
	* rtmp:// address
	* class file to deploy (fileupload)
	* dependent jar files of class file (fileupload)
- Finally the wizard uploads and deploys the application
- A scheduled or immediate red5 server restart will take
place. (Dynamically 
adding/removing new apps 
without server restart would be very nice, but impossible I
bet)

The possibilities of such an administrator interface are
plenty like:
- monitoring/limiting bandwidth;
- reading/flushing logfiles;
- server 'health' detection;
- changing java setttings (e.g. memory)
- starting/stopping/reloading the server;
- etc.

Ruben



On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:31:18 +0200, Joachim Bauch wrote
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> First of all thanks for your input!
> 
> Ruben Waitz / Amtex wrote:
> > I've played around with red5 and gained some
experience with java package
> > development for Red5
("Application.class").
> > 
> > First of all Red5 is a great product but I'm very
curious about the ease 
of
> > general usage with it in production environments:
> > - for the server:
installing/configuring/updating/etc;
> > - for applications:
deploying/configuring/updating;
> 
> Well, Red5 currently is mainly targeted for developers,
so there 
> might be a few rough edges in productive use.
> 
> > I noticed that it's quite a job to deploy a new
application with mysql
> > support in a (remote) Red5 production environment:
> > - add the application class (helloWorld.class) to
red5.jar
> > - configure all settings (xml/properties files)
> > - add mysql-connector-java.*.jar to the server to
get MySQL access
> > - add mysql jar to "wrapper.conf"
(windows) or pass classpath option with
> > mysql jar to the java executable
> > - restart the server.....
> 
> You can actually deploy your application but adding a
new folder to the
> "webapps" directory with the following
sub-folders:
> 
> WEB-INF        -> configuration files
>    |-- lib     -> *.jar files
>    |-- classes -> compiled classes
> 
> Of course you will have to adjust the configuration
files depending
> on the database you are using, but the .class and .jar
files should
> be used automatically during startup of your
application.
> There should be no need to change any Red5 files
(besides network
> settings).  Note to self: this needs to be documented
better!
> 
> Restarting is required as Red5 doesn't load new
applications when
> already running.
> 
> What would you like to improve here?  Or better: how
would you like
> to deploy your application?
> 
> > Will there be a management interface (e.g.
webinterface) available in the
> > future to configure Red5? (A kind of 'webmin'
solution to make life a 
little
> > easier?)
> 
> Some sort of management interface is planned, but we
currently don't 
> know how this will look like.  Ideas welcome ;)
> 
> > I think version 0.6 (ref: roadmap) might deal with
some of my notices, 
but
> > maybe you can do something with my findings.
> 
> Yep, we will add a lot of administrator supporting
tools and documentation
> in later versions.  For easier application development,
scripting support
> will also help a lot.
> 
> > (P.s. Joachim, I agree with you that shared
objects are supported from 
the
> > trunk v0.5. I didn't know that...)
> 
> SharedObjects are supported in 0.4.* as well, however
the support for
> serverside listeners is new and will only be available
starting in 0.5.
> 
> Joachim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
> Red5osflash.org
> 
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org


_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org

http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org

Hi Ruben,

Ruben Waitz wrote:
> I'll have to test the 'WEB-INF/classes/*.jar'
method.
> In the courses at 'ht
tp://www.flashextensions.com/index.php?page=free' (20+ 
> tutorials) the teacher (Fred?) explicitly said that
you'll have to add your 
> own class file in the jar file to let it work.
> I think that it only works if you register the app in
build.xml and 
> recompile Red5 with Ant completely.  

You surely don't have to add your classes to the red5.jar
file!  It's okay
to have them either somewhere
1. in the classpath
2. in WEB-INF/classes/*.class
3. in WEB-INF/lib/*.jar

Of course you can add your app to the build.xml to generate
a red5.jar
that contains all classes, but it's not required.

> So you are saying if I turn helloWorld.class into
helloWorld.jar and put it 
> into WEB-INF/classes it should work? 

You don't need to put it in a .jar file, the .class is
sufficient.

> And also leave red5.jar untouched? That would be very
nice...! That way I 
> could reside mysql-connector-java.*.jar there too.

Yep.

> Continuing on that, it should also be possible to
enable 'log4j.properties' 
> for each individual application (in its own log file).

Yep, just put such a file in the WEB-INF directory of your
application.

> You asked me how I would like to deploy an application.
> Let's say there's a production Linux server and a
Windows XP development 
> desktop both running Red5.
> I think of the following scene:
[...]

Okay, this is all sounds like a good way to deploy
applications, but
I think this will be done in a second step after Red5 is
mostly
feature-complete ;)

Joachim

_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org

http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org

Joachim Bauch wrote:

> Some sort of management interface is planned, but we
currently don't know
> how this will look like.  Ideas welcome ;)

I think what we need here is smth like deployment management
in Glassfish:

1. Actions are list, deploy, delete, manage configuration of
selected 
app. That's obvious, isn't it?

2. Hot deploy ala JBoss if possible (is possible with Jetty
at all?)

3. Friendly user interface with tips and links for
respective 
documentation topics because many Flash programmers has no
any clue 
about Java apps and their configuration. We need to have
tooltips for 
inputs and so forth. Apps development is fun with Red5 and
Groovy 
together, I think deployment and management MUST become that
fun or it 
would be like "I've just finished developing it, oh
hell now I have to 
deploy it on the remote PC, dammit..."

4. Live log view is a must for any running app. Imaging that
I have 2 
Red5 apps (one of them is generic app that just saves all
the content 
that is being redirected to it and I would like to use it
everywhere and 
not to deal with inheritance, because I can't control other
people's 
code; and another one handles, say, actual clients streams
and data and 
forwards it when necessary) and one of them depends on
activity of 
another. It would be a pain in the ass not to have an option
to debug it 
in real-time.

Read logs? Oh c'mon...

5. This makes me think of Eclipse Red5 plugin  Which
could be a kind 
of "PDE style wrap" for properties configuration
during authoring and 
provide actions to deploy an app with a couple of clicks ;)

6. Remote deployment/management option would be amazing. But
it's kind 
of dreams that not come true I guess 

7. That's all in general. Will post a more detail
suggestion in future 
conversation of this topic.

-- 
Michael "Antares" Klishin,

http://www.novemberain.com
 |  mailto:michaelnovemberain.com

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Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org

http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org

Hi Joachim,

I'm pulling my hair out to get apps working without adding
classes to 
red5.jar. Ofcourse with a server restart each attempt.

It seems that
webapps/myapp/WEB-INF/classes/myapp/Application.class is 
simply ignored or skipped.

I connected it from webapps/myapp/WEB-INF/red5-web.xml in
the following way:
<bean id="web.handler" 
  class="myapp.Application" 
  singleton="true" />

Also I made all neccessary changes red5-web.properties
(webapp.contextPath) 
and web.xml (webrootkey)

Also, for insurance, I copied 'Application.class' to
webapps/myapp/WEB-
INF/classes/ but had no success either.

Finally tried it on Linux to avoid 'wrapper.exe' but this
was unsuccessful 
also.

Am I forgetting something to let it work...?

(Furthermore I noticed that all 'shipped'
application-examples make use of 
classes in the red5.jar. That's why they do always work I
think...)


Ruben





On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:06:54 +0200, Joachim Bauch wrote
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> Ruben Waitz wrote:
> > I'll have to test the 'WEB-INF/classes/*.jar'
method.
> > In the courses at 'ht
tp://www.flashextensions.com/index.php?page=free' 
(20+ 
> > tutorials) the teacher (Fred?) explicitly said
that you'll have to add 
your 
> > own class file in the jar file to let it work.
> > I think that it only works if you register the app
in build.xml and 
> > recompile Red5 with Ant completely.
> 
> You surely don't have to add your classes to the
red5.jar file!  
> It's okay to have them either somewhere
> 1. in the classpath
> 2. in WEB-INF/classes/*.class
> 3. in WEB-INF/lib/*.jar
> 
> Of course you can add your app to the build.xml to
generate a 
> red5.jar that contains all classes, but it's not
required.
> 
> > So you are saying if I turn helloWorld.class into
helloWorld.jar and put 
it 
> > into WEB-INF/classes it should work?
> 
> You don't need to put it in a .jar file, the .class is
sufficient.
> 
> > And also leave red5.jar untouched? That would be
very nice...! That way 
I 
> > could reside mysql-connector-java.*.jar there too.
> 
> Yep.
> 
> > Continuing on that, it should also be possible to 
enable 'log4j.properties' 
> > for each individual application (in its own log
file).
> 
> Yep, just put such a file in the WEB-INF directory of
your application.
> 
> > You asked me how I would like to deploy an
application.
> > Let's say there's a production Linux server and
a Windows XP development 
> > desktop both running Red5.
> > I think of the following scene:
> [...]
> 
> Okay, this is all sounds like a good way to deploy
applications, but
> I think this will be done in a second step after Red5
is mostly
> feature-complete ;)
> 
> Joachim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
> Red5osflash.org
> 
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org


_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org

http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org

Hi Joachim,

I'm pulling my hair out to get apps working without adding
classes to 
red5.jar. Ofcourse with a server restart each attempt.

It seems that
webapps/myapp/WEB-INF/classes/myapp/Application.class is 
simply ignored or skipped.

I connected it from webapps/myapp/WEB-INF/red5-web.xml in
the following way:
<bean id="web.handler" 
  class="myapp.Application" 
  singleton="true" />

Also I made all neccessary changes red5-web.properties
(webapp.contextPath) 
and web.xml (webrootkey)

Also, for insurance, I copied 'Application.class' to
webapps/myapp/WEB-
INF/classes/ but had no success either.

Finally tried it on Linux to avoid 'wrapper.exe' but this
was unsuccessful 
also.

Am I forgetting something to let it work...?

(Furthermore I noticed that all 'shipped'
application-examples make use of 
classes in the red5.jar. That's why they do always work I
think...)


Ruben





On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:06:54 +0200, Joachim Bauch wrote
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> Ruben Waitz wrote:
> > I'll have to test the 'WEB-INF/classes/*.jar'
method.
> > In the courses at 'ht
tp://www.flashextensions.com/index.php?page=free' 
(20+ 
> > tutorials) the teacher (Fred?) explicitly said
that you'll have to add 
your 
> > own class file in the jar file to let it work.
> > I think that it only works if you register the app
in build.xml and 
> > recompile Red5 with Ant completely.
> 
> You surely don't have to add your classes to the
red5.jar file!  
> It's okay to have them either somewhere
> 1. in the classpath
> 2. in WEB-INF/classes/*.class
> 3. in WEB-INF/lib/*.jar
> 
> Of course you can add your app to the build.xml to
generate a 
> red5.jar that contains all classes, but it's not
required.
> 
> > So you are saying if I turn helloWorld.class into
helloWorld.jar and put 
it 
> > into WEB-INF/classes it should work?
> 
> You don't need to put it in a .jar file, the .class is
sufficient.
> 
> > And also leave red5.jar untouched? That would be
very nice...! That way 
I 
> > could reside mysql-connector-java.*.jar there too.
> 
> Yep.
> 
> > Continuing on that, it should also be possible to 
enable 'log4j.properties' 
> > for each individual application (in its own log
file).
> 
> Yep, just put such a file in the WEB-INF directory of
your application.
> 
> > You asked me how I would like to deploy an
application.
> > Let's say there's a production Linux server and
a Windows XP development 
> > desktop both running Red5.
> > I think of the following scene:
> [...]
> 
> Okay, this is all sounds like a good way to deploy
applications, but
> I think this will be done in a second step after Red5
is mostly
> feature-complete ;)
> 
> Joachim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
> Red5osflash.org
> 
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org


_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org

http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org