|
List Info
Thread: Echo without headset, are there solutions?
|
|
| Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
 
United States |
2008-03-14 14:12:48 |
Hello,
When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software, there is
a high level of
echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I thought
that this was
something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have exacly the
same problem,
but only for 2 seconds!
I think that Skype has some kind of filter that
automatically starts at that
moment.
I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and I
have checked the
option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash Player
settings, but this is
absolutely not enough.
Someone has any experience with this?
Regards,
Vincent
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com
/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p159
50622.html
Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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|
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
United States |
2008-03-14 14:17:10 |
try and see if you have stereo mix turned on in the widows
mixer, mute
it if you do.
vincentv75 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software,
there is a high level of
> echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I
thought that this was
> something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have
exacly the same problem,
> but only for 2 seconds!
>
> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that
automatically starts at that
> moment.
>
> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and
I have checked the
> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash
Player settings, but this is
> absolutely not enough.
>
> Someone has any experience with this?
>
> Regards,
> Vincent
>
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
 
Russian Federation |
2008-03-14 14:33:51 |
That won't help, flash player has no AEC yet, so you always
will get echo
without headset. AEC will be available only in the next
version of flash
player.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dmitry Orlovsky" <dmitry.orlovskyvivox.com>
To: <red5osflash.org>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Red5] Echo without headset, are there
solutions?
> try and see if you have stereo mix turned on in the
widows mixer, mute
> it if you do.
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software,
there is a high level
>> of
>> echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I
thought that this was
>> something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have
exacly the same
>> problem,
>> but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that
automatically starts at
>> that
>> moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo
and I have checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash
Player settings, but this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
> Red5osflash.org
>
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
version of virus
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>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
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>
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|
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
United States |
2008-03-14 14:37:18 |
Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I need a
solution which is
server-side. This because people are lazy and if they hear
echo, they run
away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested 
So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution so
people can chat
without headsets, just like at Skype?
vincentv75 wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software,
there is a high level
> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I
thought that this
> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have
exacly the same
> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>
> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that
automatically starts at
> that moment.
>
> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and
I have checked the
> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash
Player settings, but this is
> absolutely not enough.
>
> Someone has any experience with this?
>
> Regards,
> Vincent
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com
/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p160
52246.html
Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
United States |
2008-03-14 14:55:35 |
I would venture to guess that aside form an aggressive
compression
filter on client side there isn't mush you could do, you can
try
compression server side as well but i would assume broadcast
stream post
processing would put a damper on performance and
scalability.
Just as as side note, most of Skype's coolo automagic
happens on the
client side....
vincentv75 wrote:
> Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I
need a solution which is
> server-side. This because people are lazy and if they
hear echo, they run
> away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested
>
> So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution
so people can chat
> without headsets, just like at Skype?
>
>
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software,
there is a high level
>> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head.
I thought that this
>> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I
have exacly the same
>> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that
automatically starts at
>> that moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo
and I have checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash
Player settings, but this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
United States |
2008-03-14 14:56:30 |
Skype solution is not server side, although it could be.
Skype does the noise echo cancellation on the client side.
Theory for server side solution:
Does RED5 allow for adding audio filters? If it did, then
you can
simply create an audio filter to do the echo cancellation on
the
server side.
I find it better to do the echo cancellation on the
client/user side
as this could use up too much processing from the server
side.
IMHO
On Mar 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, vincentv75 wrote:
>
> Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I
need a solution
> which is
> server-side. This because people are lazy and if they
hear echo,
> they run
> away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested
>
> So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution
so people can
> chat
> without headsets, just like at Skype?
>
>
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software,
there is a high
>> level
>> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head.
I thought that
>> this
>> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I
have exacly the same
>> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that
automatically
>> starts at
>> that moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo
and I have
>> checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash
Player settings, but this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com
/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p160
52246.html
> Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
> Red5osflash.org
>
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
|
2008-03-14 20:58:11 |
|
I agree with Dimitry,
you need to implement whats known as a gate or limiter on the client side i.e. an automatic dynamic volume control that turns the input gain down to zero in all cases unless input levels exceed a certain threshold (gate), or an automatic dynamic volume control that never lets the input gain exceed a certain threshold (limiter). You could loosely couple that to netConnection so that no data is transmitted during periods of 'silence'.
Server side DSP (Digital Signal Processing) is expensive, for the reason that the server must process audio streams of all connected clients - from a resource point of view, it makes much more sense for the client to do the DSP, and communicate the results to the server (for client dissemination).
If you are in the position whereby you have only access to the server, I'm afraid you're in a tight spot. Client is really the only feasible position. If you hold on for a bit, Flash 10 (Astro) apparently provides this functionality natively (unless a neuron has misfired- can't seem to find any details online, but I do recall reading about it a number of monhts ago. Validate at your own discretion!), so if it is a case of your only copula being the server side application, wait for the client to advance.
best
David
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Giovanni < rbml alphaview. com">rbmlalphaview.com> wrote:
Skype solution is not server side, although it could be.
Skype does the noise echo cancellation on the client side.
Theory for server side solution:
Does RED5 allow for adding audio filters? If it did, then you can
simply create an audio filter to do the echo cancellation on the
server side.
I find it better to do the echo cancellation on the client/user side
as this could use up too much processing from the server side.
IMHO
On Mar 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, vincentv75 wrote:
>
> Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I need a solution
> which is
> server-side. This because people are lazy and if they hear echo,
> they run
> away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested
>
> So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution so people can
> chat
>; without headsets, just like at Skype?
>
>
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software, there is a high
>;> level
>> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I thought that
>;> this
>;> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have exacly the same
>;> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that automatically
>> starts at
>> that moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and I have
>;> checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash Player settings, but this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p16052246.html
> Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>; _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
>; Red5osflash.org">Red5osflash.org
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org">Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
 
Netherlands |
2008-03-15 04:23:15 |
|
Okay, DSP is the
solution for my problem.
I understand I
have to wait for Flash 10, but is there any option to embed a DSP right now in
the client alternatively?
From:
red5-bouncesosflash.org [mailto:red5-bouncesosflash.org] On Behalf Of David Foley
Sent: zaterdag 15 maart 2008 2:58
To: red5osflash.org
Subject: Re: [Red5] Echo without
headset, are there solutions?
I agree with Dimitry,
you need to implement whats known as a gate or limiter on the client side i.e.
an automatic dynamic volume control that turns the input gain down to zero in
all cases unless input levels exceed a certain threshold (gate), or an
automatic dynamic volume control that never lets the input gain exceed a
certain threshold (limiter). You could loosely couple that to netConnection so
that no data is transmitted during periods of 'silence'.
Server side DSP (Digital Signal Processing) is expensive, for the reason that
the server must process audio streams of all connected clients - from a
resource point of view, it makes much more sense for the client to do the DSP,
and communicate the results to the server (for client dissemination).
If you are in the position whereby you have only access to the server, I'm
afraid you're in a tight spot. Client is really the only feasible position. If
you hold on for a bit, Flash 10 (Astro) apparently provides this functionality
natively (unless a neuron has misfired- can't seem to find any details online,
but I do recall reading about it a number of monhts ago. Validate at your own
discretion!), so if it is a case of your only copula being the server side
application, wait for the client to advance.
best
David
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Giovanni <alphaview.com">rbmlalphaview.com> wrote:
Skype solution is not server side, although it could be.
Skype does the noise echo cancellation on the client side.
Theory for server side solution:
Does RED5 allow for adding audio filters? If it did, then you can
simply create an audio filter to do the echo cancellation on the
server side.
I find it better to do the echo cancellation on the client/user side
as this could use up too much processing from the server side.
IMHO
On Mar 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, vincentv75 wrote:
>
> Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I need a solution
> which is
> server-side. This because people are lazy and if they hear echo,
> they run
> away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested
>
> So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution so people can
> chat
>; without headsets, just like at Skype?
>
>
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software, there is a high
>;> level
>> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I thought that
>;> this
>;> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have exacly the same
>;> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that automatically
>> starts at
>> that moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and I have
>;> checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash Player settings, but
this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p16052246.html
> Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>; _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
>; Red5osflash.org">Red5osflash.org
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org">Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
|
2008-03-15 09:11:57 |
|
Its a little more primitive than DSP, but you can implement an audio gate on the basis of dynamically setting the value for setSilenceLevel. Play around with it and you will get a feel for what has to be done (also paying attention to microphone.gain). If you are not in a position to figure it out yourself for whatever reason, using AS3, try the following settings on a microphone instance - it may work for you.
var mic:Microphone = Microphone.get() // whatever
mic.setLoopBack(false); // prevent input from being routed back to local speakers - helps reduce feedback in some conditions
mic.setUseEchoSuppresion(true); // use flashes built in echoSuppression .. its ok-ish
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Vincent < vincentv75 gmail.com" target="_blank">vincentv75gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, DSP is the
solution for my problem.
I understand I
have to wait for Flash 10, but is there any option to embed a DSP right now in
the client alternatively?
I agree with Dimitry,
you need to implement whats known as a gate or limiter on the client side i.e.
an automatic dynamic volume control that turns the input gain down to zero in
all cases unless input levels exceed a certain threshold (gate), or an
automatic dynamic volume control that never lets the input gain exceed a
certain threshold (limiter). You could loosely couple that to netConnection so
that no data is transmitted during periods of 'silence'.
Server side DSP (Digital Signal Processing) is expensive, for the reason that
the server must process audio streams of all connected clients - from a
resource point of view, it makes much more sense for the client to do the DSP,
and communicate the results to the server (for client dissemination).
If you are in the position whereby you have only access to the server, I'm
afraid you're in a tight spot. Client is really the only feasible position. If
you hold on for a bit, Flash 10 (Astro) apparently provides this functionality
natively (unless a neuron has misfired- can't seem to find any details online,
but I do recall reading about it a number of monhts ago. Validate at your own
discretion!), so if it is a case of your only copula being the server side
application, wait for the client to advance.
best
David
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Giovanni < rbmlalphaview.com" target="_blank">rbmlalphaview.com> wrote:
Skype solution is not server side, although it could be.
Skype does the noise echo cancellation on the client side.
Theory for server side solution:
Does RED5 allow for adding audio filters? If it did, then you can
simply create an audio filter to do the echo cancellation on the
server side.
I find it better to do the echo cancellation on the client/user side
as this could use up too much processing from the server side.
IMHO
On Mar 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, vincentv75 wrote:
>
> Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I need a solution
> which is
> server-side. This because people are lazy and if they hear echo,
> they run
> away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested
>
> So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution so people can
> chat
>; without headsets, just like at Skype?
>
>
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software, there is a high
>;> level
>> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I thought that
>;> this
>;> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have exacly the same
>;> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that automatically
>> starts at
>> that moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and I have
>;> checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash Player settings, but
this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p16052246.html
> Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>; _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
>; Red5osflash.org" target="_blank">Red5osflash.org
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org" target="_blank">Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org" target="_blank">Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
|
| Re: Echo without headset, are there
solutions? |
Netherlands |
2008-03-17 06:02:57 |
|
Thanks guys for
your information.
I will try to set
these 2 parameters and I will see if I can implement a limiter. I hope the next
version of Flash is coming out soon!
Regards,
Vincent
From:
red5-bouncesosflash.org [mailto:red5-bouncesosflash.org] On Behalf Of David Foley
Sent: zaterdag 15 maart 2008 15:12
To: red5osflash.org
Subject: Re: [Red5] Echo without
headset, are there solutions?
Its a little more primitive than DSP, but you can implement an audio gate on
the basis of dynamically setting the value for setSilenceLevel. Play around
with it and you will get a feel for what has to be done (also paying attention
to microphone.gain). If you are not in a position to figure it out yourself for
whatever reason, using AS3, try the following settings on a microphone instance
- it may work for you.
var mic:Microphone = Microphone.get() // whatever
mic.setLoopBack(false); // prevent input from being routed back to local
speakers - helps reduce feedback in some conditions
mic.setUseEchoSuppresion(true); // use flashes built in echoSuppression .. its
ok-ish
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Vincent <gmail.com" target="_blank">vincentv75gmail.com>
wrote:
Okay, DSP is the solution for my problem.
I understand I have to wait for Flash 10,
but is there any option to embed a DSP right now in the client alternatively?
I agree with Dimitry,
you need to implement whats known as a gate or limiter on the client side i.e.
an automatic dynamic volume control that turns the input gain down to zero in
all cases unless input levels exceed a certain threshold (gate), or an
automatic dynamic volume control that never lets the input gain exceed a
certain threshold (limiter). You could loosely couple that to netConnection so
that no data is transmitted during periods of 'silence'.
Server side DSP (Digital Signal Processing) is expensive, for the reason that
the server must process audio streams of all connected clients - from a
resource point of view, it makes much more sense for the client to do the DSP,
and communicate the results to the server (for client dissemination).
If you are in the position whereby you have only access to the server, I'm
afraid you're in a tight spot. Client is really the only feasible position. If
you hold on for a bit, Flash 10 (Astro) apparently provides this functionality
natively (unless a neuron has misfired- can't seem to find any details online,
but I do recall reading about it a number of monhts ago. Validate at your own
discretion!), so if it is a case of your only copula being the server side
application, wait for the client to advance.
best
David
On Fri,
Mar 14, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Giovanni < rbmlalphaview.com"
target="_blank">rbmlalphaview.com> wrote:
Skype
solution is not server side, although it could be.
Skype does the noise echo cancellation on the client side.
Theory for server side solution:
Does RED5 allow for adding audio filters? If it did, then you can
simply create an audio filter to do the echo cancellation on the
server side.
I find it better to do the echo cancellation on the client/user side
as this could use up too much processing from the server side.
IMHO
On Mar 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, vincentv75 wrote:
>
> Just to avoid misunderstandings. I am a developer, I need a solution
> which is
> server-side. This because people are lazy and if they hear echo,
> they run
> away or they make symphonies like hansi suggested
>
> So I was wondering... is there a server-side solution so people can
> chat
>; without headsets, just like at Skype?
>
>
>
> vincentv75 wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> When I am chatting with Red5 webcam chat software, there is a high
>;> level
>> of echo when I don't have any headphone on my head. I thought that
>;> this
>;> was something inevitable, but when I use Skype I have exacly the same
>;> problem, but only for 2 seconds!
>>
>> I think that Skype has some kind of filter that automatically
>> starts at
>> that moment.
>>
>> I am using already a method in Java to reduce echo and I have
>;> checked the
>> option "Reduce Echo" in the Adobe Flash Player settings, but
this is
>> absolutely not enough.
>>
>> Someone has any experience with this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Echo-without-headset%2C-are-there-solutions--tp15950622p16052246.html
> Sent from the Red5 - English mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>; _______________________________________________
> Red5 mailing list
>; Red5osflash.org" target="_blank">Red5osflash.org
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org" target="_blank">Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
_______________________________________________
Red5 mailing list
Red5osflash.org" target="_blank">Red5osflash.org
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
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