ati or nvidia cards in documentation

Hi,
I looked through Fedora 9 release notes and there is no
mention of ATI
or Nvidia cards and their proprietary drivers. Because lots
of people
have these cards and know that in order to get compositing
working on
their desktop that they need proprietary drivers. I'm
fortunate to be
using intel video chips in all of my laptops but others
aren't so
lucky or knowable. I don't see it in release notes but I
hear from
other users that these proprietary drivers don't work with
latest
X.org server. Is that information not relevant enough for
release
notes?

Cheers,
Valent.



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Valent Turkovic wrote:
> Hi,
> I looked through Fedora 9 release notes and there is no
mention of ATI
> or Nvidia cards and their proprietary drivers. Because
lots of people
> have these cards and know that in order to get
compositing working on
> their desktop that they need proprietary drivers. I'm
fortunate to be
> using intel video chips in all of my laptops but others
aren't so
> lucky or knowable. I don't see it in release notes but
I hear from
> other users that these proprietary drivers don't work
with latest
> X.org server. Is that information not relevant enough
for release
> notes?

We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer

https://fedoraproject.or
g/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_dri
vers

Rahul

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> We don't usually document proprietary software. Also
refer
>
> https://fedoraproject.or
g/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_dri
vers
>
> Rahul

I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software but I'm
just
trying to say that we need to at least say that somewhere
and although
common bugs page is really nice I would expect it also in
release
notes. The link is really helpful - thank you Rahul.

Cheers,
Valent.


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On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:59 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: 
> > We don't usually document proprietary software.
Also refer
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.or
g/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_dri
vers
> >
> > Rahul
> 
> I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software 

This is a requirement that we haven't documented well. 
Maybe big,
flashing letters on DocsProject?

        "We do not document how to install or use
proprietary, closed
        source software."

... nicer way ...

        "If it is not in Fedora, we won't document
it."

It's hard enough documenting the world of software that is
in Fedora. 

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.
redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeop
le.org
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On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:59 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > We don't usually document proprietary software.
Also refer
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.or
g/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_dri
vers
> >
> > Rahul
> 
> I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software
but I'm just
> trying to say that we need to at least say that
somewhere and although
> common bugs page is really nice I would expect it also
in release
> notes. 

I just sent a flippant reply to this, but it is worth taking
a moment to
respond with more detail.

There are *many* good reasons not to document the use of
closed source
software.  Perhaps it is worth writing this up into a short
essay on a
wiki page so we can refer to it always.

At the same time, it can be very painful to not be able to
help someone
with their problem, especially when "all you have to do
is ..."  It is
very human to want to take away their hurt.  In Fedora, we
know that if
we try to take away short term hurt, we have to be careful
that we are
not perpetuating the long term hurt.

Is this something that is unclear to other people?  The
reasons why we
only document software that is provided in Fedora?

Earlier today I removed instructions that Valent put on the
ForbiddenItems page.  The instructions pointed to a bug in
Firefox that
prevented Firefox's plugin finder from working with
installing Adobe's
Flash player.  In addition, a link was included to a page
describing how
to install Adobe's Flash player.  This was all in
replacement of a
previous statement that one could use Firefox to install the
Flash
plugin.  Valent was correcting that original "how-to
install" statement
with the bug report et al.  In consideration, I think the
original
statement was incorrect being there.

I'm calling this out because this content is a blatant
violation of the
very reason that page exists.  Just as it is blatantly
obvious to me why
we do not document software Fedora does not and/or cannot
ship.

I'm going to answer my own question and say, yes, it is
unclear for
people, dangerously so.  As we invite more end-user helpers
to use the
fedoraproject.org/wiki, it needs to be crystal clear to them
what is and
is not permitted for content.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.
redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeop
le.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

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On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade
<kwaderedhat.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:59 +0200, Valent Turkovic
wrote:
>> > We don't usually document proprietary
software. Also refer
>> >
>> > https://fedoraproject.or
g/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_dri
vers
>> >
>> > Rahul
>>
>> I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary
software but I'm just
>> trying to say that we need to at least say that
somewhere and although
>> common bugs page is really nice I would expect it
also in release
>> notes.
>
> I just sent a flippant reply to this, but it is worth
taking a moment to
> respond with more detail.
>
> There are *many* good reasons not to document the use
of closed source
> software.  Perhaps it is worth writing this up into a
short essay on a
> wiki page so we can refer to it always.
>
> At the same time, it can be very painful to not be able
to help someone
> with their problem, especially when "all you have
to do is ..."  It is
> very human to want to take away their hurt.  In Fedora,
we know that if
> we try to take away short term hurt, we have to be
careful that we are
> not perpetuating the long term hurt.
>
> Is this something that is unclear to other people?  The
reasons why we
> only document software that is provided in Fedora?
>
> Earlier today I removed instructions that Valent put on
the
> ForbiddenItems page.  The instructions pointed to a bug
in Firefox that
> prevented Firefox's plugin finder from working with
installing Adobe's
> Flash player.  In addition, a link was included to a
page describing how
> to install Adobe's Flash player.  This was all in
replacement of a
> previous statement that one could use Firefox to
install the Flash
> plugin.  Valent was correcting that original
"how-to install" statement
> with the bug report et al.  In consideration, I think
the original
> statement was incorrect being there.


I guess that you also need/want to correct the page :
http:/
/fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Flash


Cheers,
Valent.

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