Ratchets, two final issues. Please help.

Hi--

I'm closing in on an first release of Ratchets. I'm down to
two
outstanding major issues.

1) Whether to name the lib directory 'ratchet' or
'ratchets'. I'm
stuck on this b/c  on one hand I usually avoid plurals, but
in this
case the name of the project itself is ratchets, plural. So
I'm not
sure. And Facets doesn't give any guidance here either since
it uses
both singular and plural b/c of the trick of integrating the
Facets/CORE and Facets/MORE libs.

2) Ratchets' main command line tool is called 'project'.
Like 'rake'
and 'reap' (RIP) 'project' can take a task name as an
argument and
will run that user-defined task. BUT, it can also take the
name of a
built-in Ratchets tool and run the tool directly. Ex: Here's
a snip
from a ProjecInfo file:

  tasks:
    history: !!changelog
      file: doc/HISTORY

So on the command line we can do:

  $ project history

and it will generate the changelog file, in this case at
doc/HISTORY.
But we can also do:

  $ project changelog --file doc/HISTORY

To run the chngelog tool directly without defining a task.

My debate is whether it works well enough to have both modes
of
functionality in the same command. (Note task definitions
take
precedence if there is a name clash.) I sort of worry that
someone
will go to run a task they think is there and inadvertently
run a
tool. But maybe I'm over blowing it. But if I did split it
into two
command, I have no idea what to call the other. Or maybe
there is a
way to mitigate the issue? Thoughts?

Thanks,
T.

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Am 04.10.2006 um 22:04 schrieb TRANS:
>
> I'm closing in on an first release of Ratchets. I'm
down to two
> outstanding major issues.

Looking forward to it 

> 1) Whether to name the lib directory 'ratchet' or
'ratchets'. I'm
> stuck on this b/c  on one hand I usually avoid plurals,
but in this
> case the name of the project itself is ratchets,
plural. So I'm not

I prefer ratchets (plural). It's easier to remember if the
project is  
called ratchets. And as another example: rubygems (the lib
dir is in  
plural too, even if the command (gem) is in singular). If
you had a  
command "ratchet" instead of "project"
the command should be singular  
probably, but "project" is nicer indeed.

> 2) Ratchets' main command line tool is called
'project'. Like 'rake'
..
> My debate is whether it works well enough to have both
modes of
> functionality in the same command. (Note task
definitions take
> precedence if there is a name clash.) I sort of worry
that someone
> will go to run a task they think is there and
inadvertently run a
> tool. But maybe I'm over blowing it. But if I did split
it into two
> command, I have no idea what to call the other. Or
maybe there is a
> way to mitigate the issue? Thoughts?

I think it's okay like you described. The problem still
exists if  
users don't know all project keywords and just override them
with  
their task definition. Overriding is ok I think, but maybe
you could  
give a "WARNING" on command line.

Just my thoughts.

Fabian



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On 10/5/06, Fabian Buch <fabianfabian-buch.de> wrote:
>
> Am 04.10.2006 um 22:04 schrieb TRANS:
> >
> > I'm closing in on an first release of Ratchets.
I'm down to two
> > outstanding major issues.
>
> Looking forward to it 
>
> > 1) Whether to name the lib directory 'ratchet' or
'ratchets'. I'm
> > stuck on this b/c  on one hand I usually avoid
plurals, but in this
> > case the name of the project itself is ratchets,
plural. So I'm not
>
> I prefer ratchets (plural). It's easier to remember if
the project is
> called ratchets. And as another example: rubygems (the
lib dir is in
> plural too, even if the command (gem) is in singular).
If you had a
> command "ratchet" instead of
"project" the command should be singular
> probably, but "project" is nicer indeed.

Cool. That's done. Thanks for tipping the scale for me 

> > 2) Ratchets' main command line tool is called
'project'. Like 'rake'
> ..
> > My debate is whether it works well enough to have
both modes of
> > functionality in the same command. (Note task
definitions take
> > precedence if there is a name clash.) I sort of
worry that someone
> > will go to run a task they think is there and
inadvertently run a
> > tool. But maybe I'm over blowing it. But if I did
split it into two
> > command, I have no idea what to call the other. Or
maybe there is a
> > way to mitigate the issue? Thoughts?
>
> I think it's okay like you described. The problem still
exists if
> users don't know all project keywords and just override
them with
> their task definition. Overriding is ok I think, but
maybe you could
> give a "WARNING" on command line.

Okay. I'll leave it as it is then. It can always be split
later if needs be.

Thanks Fabian!

T.
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Excuse my ignorance, I feel a little bit lost with all these
names.
What exactly is ratchets and where can I download it? I
understand it
is some kind of a Reap replacement?

-g.


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Am 05.10.2006 um 21:47 schrieb George Moschovitis:

> Excuse my ignorance, I feel a little bit lost with all
these names.
> What exactly is ratchets and where can I download it? I
understand it
> is some kind of a Reap replacement?

Yes. You can't download it yet, b/c Trans didn't release it
yet, but  
will soon . I bet
Trans will do a release announcement in this list  
too.

Ratchets will combine Reap, Sow and Rolls as I understood
Trans. One  
software for projects, tasks, meta-package management and
something  
that could replace rubygems.

Fabian



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On 10/5/06, George Moschovitis <george.moschovitisgmail.com> wrote:
> Excuse my ignorance, I feel a little bit lost with all
these names.
> What exactly is ratchets and where can I download it? I
understand it
> is some kind of a Reap replacement?

That's right. Working on Reap, Rolls and Sow I realized I
was making
things much more complex than they needed to be. These
projects were
largely dependent so did an expirement and merged them.
Well,
everything came together like magic and so Ratchets was
born. Of
course it took some time to take full advantage of the
merger but I'm
getting very close to a first release now.

The neat thing is, you can view Ratchets as library of build
tools,
like Facets is a library of programming tools. But of course
 Rathcets
comes with some front-end commands too to make it easy to
put them to
use.

T.

P.S. Has anyone noticed that Ryan Davis is immitating me? He
recently
released Hoe which is essentially what Reap was when I first
created
it. Then he released an ascii-pictoral html table generator
--something I did years ago. Now he's added a 'sow' command
which is
basically the same as my 'seed' command and conflicts with
the
namespace of my Sow project. Crazy. I wonder if he has any
idea. How
ironically lucky for him though, with the advent of
Ratchets, it
doesn't really matter (What was Sow will rebubbed Roll and
be built on
top of Ratchets which has 90% of needed functionality; and
what was
Roll is just library.rb now and is include in Ratchets).
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Dude, you totally stole my project name ;)

http://ratchet.rubyforge
.org

Mine's pretty inactive I have to admit, but i *might* get
back to it one
day. Not that I really care but googling for 'ratchet+ruby'
does pop me
up on page #1 :P

Andrew
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On 10/11/06, Andrew Thompson <vagabondcataclysm-software.net> wrote:
> Dude, you totally stole my project name ;)
>
> http://ratchet.rubyforge
.org
>
> Mine's pretty inactive I have to admit, but i *might*
get back to it one
> day. Not that I really care but googling for
'ratchet+ruby' does pop me
> up on page #1 :P

Great Scott!!! How did I miss that? The plural must have
made all the
difference. I'm really sorry. If only I had known....
Unfortunately,
at this point I've put a hell of a lot work into the
Ratchets theme.
And it goes well with my other project's name: Facets.  Or
maybe I can
entice you to seek an even better name for your project? The
same
thing happened to me once and that's what I ended up doing
actually.
Hell, I'd even be willing to throw in an incentive, say a
12-pack of
your favorite beverage, or something. Just a thought.

BTW, I tried to check out icecap and the site seems to be
missing.

T.
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On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 08:36:27PM -0400, TRANS wrote:
> Great Scott!!! How did I miss that? The plural must
have made all the
> difference. I'm really sorry. If only I had known....
Unfortunately,
> at this point I've put a hell of a lot work into the
Ratchets theme.
> And it goes well with my other project's name: Facets. 
Or maybe I can
> entice you to seek an even better name for your
project? The same
> thing happened to me once and that's what I ended up
doing actually.
> Hell, I'd even be willing to throw in an incentive, say
a 12-pack of
> your favorite beverage, or something. Just a thought.
> 
I don't really object to your project name, I'm not sure how
confusing
things might get though. We'll have to see. If it does
become an issue I
can just have them delete the rubyforge page and I can find
a new name
if/when I get back to the project. I'd prefer to leave that
until
there's a definite issue though.

> BTW, I tried to check out icecap and the site seems to
be missing.
I think someone broke the DNS, not sure when it'll be back
up :(

Andrew
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