Moving to Java 1.5 (in alpha3?)

Hello all,

Many people have been asking if and when we are planning to
remove the
Java 1.4 backwards compatibility requirement (BCR). I've
mentioned in
previous mails that most of the SIP Communicator developers
are just as
eager to get there as anyone else, and now I think that we
could almost
put a date on the move.

I have just added "Moving to Java 1.5" as a
milestone for the alpha3
release. One of the main reasons for not doing this earlier
is the
reports about compatibility problem with JMF, however, now
that we are
working on replacing it with FMJ (another alpha3 milestone),
we could
afford to drop that 1.4 BCR.

What does this mean in terms of time?

We will probably start preparing the alpha2 release right
after the end
of GSoC so that we could roll it out until the end of
October (the idea
is to be able and add as much GSoC code in it as possible).
Right after
this, two things are going to happen:

1. Developers would be allowed to use J1.5 semantics such as
generics
for example.

2. We would have to go through most of the existing services
and make
sure that we make uniform use of J1.5 semantics (or in other
words - do
a face lift on existing code).

By the alpha3 release, which should be out _at_most_ 6
months after
alpha2 (but preferably before the end of February 2008), we
should be a
happy 1.5 project.

Right now these are only milestones in the roadmap and we
could change
and adjust them as we find fit, so I'd be very interested to
hear any
comments on the issue.

Cheers
Emil

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Hi all,

Emil Ivov <emchosip-communicator.org> a écrit :

> Hello all,
>
> Many people have been asking if and when we are
planning to remove the
> Java 1.4 backwards compatibility requirement (BCR).
I've mentioned in
> previous mails that most of the SIP Communicator
developers are just as
> eager to get there as anyone else, and now I think that
we could almost
> put a date on the move.
>

good news 

> I have just added "Moving to Java 1.5" as a
milestone for the alpha3
> release. One of the main reasons for not doing this
earlier is the
> reports about compatibility problem with JMF, however,
now that we are
> working on replacing it with FMJ (another alpha3
milestone), we could
> afford to drop that 1.4 BCR.
>

I have heard that the media compatibility issue doesn't
exist on 1.6.  
Is that true ? If yes why not make a big jump ? Personnaly,
I use JDK  
1.6 (compiling with source set to 1.4). I have tried to set
the source  
to 1.6 and haven't seen any big issue. Have I missed
something ?

> What does this mean in terms of time?
>

Well, perhaps I don't perceive the big work behind the move.
It looks  
for me as a "simple" modification of the 1.4
source indication in the  
build.xml to 1.5 (or 1.6)  . Sure I
am wrong ...

> We will probably start preparing the alpha2 release
right after the end
> of GSoC so that we could roll it out until the end of
October (the idea
> is to be able and add as much GSoC code in it as
possible). Right after
> this, two things are going to happen:
>
> 1. Developers would be allowed to use J1.5 semantics
such as generics
> for example.
>

I like that.

> 2. We would have to go through most of the existing
services and make
> sure that we make uniform use of J1.5 semantics (or in
other words - do
> a face lift on existing code).
>

Hmm I don't understand. Does this means that we have to use
generics  
and, replace old iteration loop with "foreach"
style wherever it is  
possible ? Why ? The old fashion is still compatible and
perhaps some  
developpers love vintage. Recently, a fellow answered me
that he is  
not sick when I asked if he knows generics ...

++ Sympho

> By the alpha3 release, which should be out _at_most_ 6
months after
> alpha2 (but preferably before the end of February
2008), we should be a
> happy 1.5 project.
>
> Right now these are only milestones in the roadmap and
we could change
> and adjust them as we find fit, so I'd be very
interested to hear any
> comments on the issue.
>
> Cheers
> Emil
>
>
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>
>




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Hi Sympho, Emil and the rest of the world,

Moving away from Java 1.4 -> great news! ;) It was clear
that at some  
stage of the development this it going to happen - I'm
really glad  
that the required libraries are mature enough to allow
this.

I personally adore generics (back from the time of C++
templates).  
Apart from being a matter of personal preference, generics
help  
address most of the problems related to collections being
too  
general. The foreach loop Sympho gives as an example is a
nice  
construct, but it's even nicer to know that whenever you
have an  
Iterator<String> you can get only Strings out of it. I
think that's  
what Emil was talking about - moving towards code that uses
the  
supplied functionality as much as possible for the sake of
better  
code reuse and compile-time errors verification (versus big
bad  
ClassCastExceptions floating around during program
execution). The  
backside is that not everyone is proficient in Java
generics, and  
that sometimes the code looks weirder (with the < and
> scattered  
around) - I think that Java API is an excellent example that
these  
kinds of constructs actually help clear the code out.
Furthermore all  
modern main-stream languages have these features, so I think
it's  
almost impossible for a (modern;) programmer to have never
used them.

I think that Java 1.6 has some very nice features compared
to 1.5  
(great speed enhancements, improved GUI, integrated
profiler, etc.)  
but as far as I know it's not available for all target
platforms  
(it's not available for Mac OS for example). Anyway, I think
that  
migrating to Java 1.5 would give us enough work to keep us
busy.  
Moreover, all major changes (in fact I think that ALL
changes) that  
are going to be made in the sake of making the code truly
Java 1.5  
compatible are going to remain unchanged in the next step
when we're  
going to migrate to Java 1.6/1.7.. (some day..).
Furthermore, one may  
use Java 1.6's VM to execute SIP Communicator on the
supported  
platforms and benefit from some of the enhancements right
away.


Regards<Best> Alex;




Le 27 août 07 à 14:07, symphorien.wanko-tchuenteulp.u-strasbg.fr a  
écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> Emil Ivov <emchosip-communicator.org> a
écrit :
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Many people have been asking if and when we are
planning to remove  
>> the
>> Java 1.4 backwards compatibility requirement (BCR).
I've mentioned in
>> previous mails that most of the SIP Communicator
developers are  
>> just as
>> eager to get there as anyone else, and now I think
that we could  
>> almost
>> put a date on the move.
>>
>
> good news 
>
>> I have just added "Moving to Java 1.5" as
a milestone for the alpha3
>> release. One of the main reasons for not doing this
earlier is the
>> reports about compatibility problem with JMF,
however, now that we  
>> are
>> working on replacing it with FMJ (another alpha3
milestone), we could
>> afford to drop that 1.4 BCR.
>>
>
> I have heard that the media compatibility issue doesn't
exist on  
> 1.6. Is that true ? If yes why not make a big jump ?
Personnaly, I  
> use JDK 1.6 (compiling with source set to 1.4). I have
tried to set  
> the source to 1.6 and haven't seen any big issue. Have
I missed  
> something ?
>
>> What does this mean in terms of time?
>>
>
> Well, perhaps I don't perceive the big work behind the
move. It  
> looks for me as a "simple" modification of
the 1.4 source  
> indication in the build.xml to 1.5 (or 1.6)  . Sure I
am wrong ...
>
>> We will probably start preparing the alpha2 release
right after  
>> the end
>> of GSoC so that we could roll it out until the end
of October (the  
>> idea
>> is to be able and add as much GSoC code in it as
possible). Right  
>> after
>> this, two things are going to happen:
>>
>> 1. Developers would be allowed to use J1.5
semantics such as generics
>> for example.
>>
>
> I like that.
>
>> 2. We would have to go through most of the existing
services and make
>> sure that we make uniform use of J1.5 semantics (or
in other words  
>> - do
>> a face lift on existing code).
>>
>
> Hmm I don't understand. Does this means that we have to
use  
> generics and, replace old iteration loop with
"foreach" style  
> wherever it is possible ? Why ? The old fashion is
still compatible  
> and perhaps some developpers love vintage. Recently, a
fellow  
> answered me that he is not sick when I asked if he
knows generics ...
>
> ++ Sympho
>
>> By the alpha3 release, which should be out
_at_most_ 6 months after
>> alpha2 (but preferably before the end of February
2008), we should  
>> be a
>> happy 1.5 project.
>>
>> Right now these are only milestones in the roadmap
and we could  
>> change
>> and adjust them as we find fit, so I'd be very
interested to hear any
>> comments on the issue.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Emil
>>
>>
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---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribesip-communicator.dev.java.net
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpsip- 
>> communicator.dev.java.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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> communicator.dev.java.net
>

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Hi guys,

(inline)

Alexander Pelov wrote:
> Hi Sympho, Emil and the rest of the world,
> 
> Moving away from Java 1.4 -> great news! ;) It was
clear that at some  
> stage of the development this it going to happen - I'm
really glad  
> that the required libraries are mature enough to allow
this.
> 
> I personally adore generics (back from the time of C++
templates).  
> Apart from being a matter of personal preference,
generics help  
> address most of the problems related to collections
being too  
> general. The foreach loop Sympho gives as an example is
a nice  
> construct, but it's even nicer to know that whenever
you have an  
> Iterator<String> you can get only Strings out of
it. I think that's  
> what Emil was talking about - moving towards code that
uses the  
> supplied functionality as much as possible for the sake
of better  
> code reuse and compile-time errors verification (versus
big bad  
> ClassCastExceptions floating around during program
execution). 

Yes this is exactly what I meant. The one place where we'd
definitely
need to do this (i.e. force generics wherever possible) is
inside all
services.

Other than that, I don't think we'd need to replace every
loop with a
foreach and use all possible J1.5 goodies.

> The  
> backside is that not everyone is proficient in Java
generics, and  
> that sometimes the code looks weirder (with the <
and > scattered  
> around) - I think that Java API is an excellent example
that these  
> kinds of constructs actually help clear the code out.
Furthermore all  
> modern main-stream languages have these features, so I
think it's  
> almost impossible for a (modern;) programmer to have
never used them.
> 
> I think that Java 1.6 has some very nice features
compared to 1.5  
> (great speed enhancements, improved GUI, integrated
profiler, etc.)  
> but as far as I know it's not available for all target
platforms  
> (it's not available for Mac OS for example). 

Yes good point! And it's not available as a Debian package
either.

> Anyway, I think that  
> migrating to Java 1.5 would give us enough work to keep
us busy.  
> Moreover, all major changes (in fact I think that ALL
changes) that  
> are going to be made in the sake of making the code
truly Java 1.5  
> compatible are going to remain unchanged in the next
step when we're  
> going to migrate to Java 1.6/1.7.. (some day..).
Furthermore, one may  
> use Java 1.6's VM to execute SIP Communicator on the
supported  
> platforms and benefit from some of the enhancements
right away.

Exactly, and we are actually already distributing our
windows installers
with a 1.6 JRE.

Cheers
Emil
> 
> 
> Regards<Best> Alex;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Le 27 août 07 à 14:07, symphorien.wanko-tchuenteulp.u-strasbg.fr a  
> écrit :
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Emil Ivov <emchosip-communicator.org> a
écrit :
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> Many people have been asking if and when we are
planning to remove  
>>> the
>>> Java 1.4 backwards compatibility requirement
(BCR). I've mentioned in
>>> previous mails that most of the SIP
Communicator developers are  
>>> just as
>>> eager to get there as anyone else, and now I
think that we could  
>>> almost
>>> put a date on the move.
>>>
>> good news 
>>
>>> I have just added "Moving to Java
1.5" as a milestone for the alpha3
>>> release. One of the main reasons for not doing
this earlier is the
>>> reports about compatibility problem with JMF,
however, now that we  
>>> are
>>> working on replacing it with FMJ (another
alpha3 milestone), we could
>>> afford to drop that 1.4 BCR.
>>>
>> I have heard that the media compatibility issue
doesn't exist on  
>> 1.6. Is that true ? If yes why not make a big jump
? Personnaly, I  
>> use JDK 1.6 (compiling with source set to 1.4). I
have tried to set  
>> the source to 1.6 and haven't seen any big issue.
Have I missed  
>> something ?
>>
>>> What does this mean in terms of time?
>>>
>> Well, perhaps I don't perceive the big work behind
the move. It  
>> looks for me as a "simple" modification
of the 1.4 source  
>> indication in the build.xml to 1.5 (or 1.6)  . Sure I
am wrong ...
>>
>>> We will probably start preparing the alpha2
release right after  
>>> the end
>>> of GSoC so that we could roll it out until the
end of October (the  
>>> idea
>>> is to be able and add as much GSoC code in it
as possible). Right  
>>> after
>>> this, two things are going to happen:
>>>
>>> 1. Developers would be allowed to use J1.5
semantics such as generics
>>> for example.
>>>
>> I like that.
>>
>>> 2. We would have to go through most of the
existing services and make
>>> sure that we make uniform use of J1.5 semantics
(or in other words  
>>> - do
>>> a face lift on existing code).
>>>
>> Hmm I don't understand. Does this means that we
have to use  
>> generics and, replace old iteration loop with
"foreach" style  
>> wherever it is possible ? Why ? The old fashion is
still compatible  
>> and perhaps some developpers love vintage.
Recently, a fellow  
>> answered me that he is not sick when I asked if he
knows generics ...
>>
>> ++ Sympho
>>
>>> By the alpha3 release, which should be out
_at_most_ 6 months after
>>> alpha2 (but preferably before the end of
February 2008), we should  
>>> be a
>>> happy 1.5 project.
>>>
>>> Right now these are only milestones in the
roadmap and we could  
>>> change
>>> and adjust them as we find fit, so I'd be very
interested to hear any
>>> comments on the issue.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Emil
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribesip-communicator.dev.java.net
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpsip- 
>>> communicator.dev.java.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> communicator.dev.java.net
>>
> 
>
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> 

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