I'm Back

Hello, all.
I'm just finished my diploma and want to continue develop of
Scarab.
There are some mine minds on it in blog article http://digital-grail.blogspot.com/2008/02/s
carab-should-survive.html. That all are not absolutely
necessary. This is my vision of main 1.0 features. But there
is a 0.22 release.
I want to ask all developers:
Should I take some problems on 0.22 or there is will be
people who finish this work? Now make more then 50% of work
on porting scarab to Turbine 2.4 and I want to continue. But
I can do a contribute to 0.22 to speed up release. 

What I should do?

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>  I'm just finished my diploma and want to continue
develop of Scarab.
>  There are some mine minds on it in blog article

Welcome back, and congratulations.
Will try to take a look at your ideas later (don't have the
time right
now, sorry)

_
Jorge

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Hello

Good timing. (Inpiring for a new dud to see people come
back)

I'v read thru your blog (a little too fast, but) and whats
hit me is
that it seems that jcr (JSR-170) would be a nice persitance
mechanism for scarab (and turbine).  Please take a look at
the the reference implementation

Jackrabbit (http://jackrabbit.apach
e.org/)

and I' argue for it at a later time.

I would also like to see (and of course do)

- Support for building with maven2
- Souce generation from the build
- Souce generation by anontations for fulcrum
   (and torque if we want to support it)
- Explore the possibilities to hook into some other web
   framework (eks wicket, struts2(webwork) and other)

Killi

On 22. feb.. 2008, at 09.47, Jorge Uriarte Aretxaga wrote:

>> I'm just finished my diploma and want to continue
develop of Scarab.
>> There are some mine minds on it in blog article
>
> Welcome back, and congratulations.
> Will try to take a look at your ideas later (don't have
the time right
> now, sorry)
>
> _
> Jorge
>
>
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Mvh Killi

--
Roall Lein-Killi; mob +47 97 66 00 72; fax +47 22 33 60 24
Kongens gate 14; Boks 805 Sentrum, 0104 Oslo; Norway
http://www.conduct.no;
mailto:roall.lein-killiconduct.no

Conduct AS - Professional Open Source
Red Hat and JBoss Authorized Integration Partner
Atlassian Partner
Pentaho Preferred Integration Partner







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On 2/22/08, Roall Lein-Killi <roall.lein-killiconduct.no> wrote:
>  Good timing. (Inpiring for a new dud to see people
come back)
>

Inspiring too to get people around 

Just some quick comments:

Please take a look at the mailing lists' archive so you can
get some
background info on previously debated approaches to
evolution
(searching for 'spring', hibernate, pojo, turbine 2.4, 
might help).
There have been lots of talking about it, and even the wiki
holds some
interesting info about migrating toward a more
service-oriented
architecture (not necessarily tied to any given container)
There's even a http://scarab-inc
ubator.tigris.org/ where we tried to
evolve some experiments (though it didn't get too much
traction)

And now, some personal ideas, thrown out in no intended
order:
- let's follow the agnostic way.
- Think of services, pojos, don't get tied to anything.
- Isolate the data layer so you can change it 'if needed'.
- Build a good business layer you can later evolve, publish,
use from
GWT, EclipseRCP, XmlRPC,XFire,whatever web framework you
prefer,
etc....
- Don't try to change the whole world, at least not at
once.

_
Jorge

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I think we're in the same pragmatic world, Jorge.

Hopefully we could define user stories and requirements so
we're
able to write some good tests. Then we could play a lot.

I'll drop any technology discussions (mostly) and line up
for the
business needs.

Any ideas about how we could do the planning? Any agile
tools?

Killi

On 22. feb.. 2008, at 11.11, Jorge Uriarte Aretxaga wrote:

> On 2/22/08, Roall Lein-Killi <roall.lein-killiconduct.no> wrote:
>> Good timing. (Inpiring for a new dud to see people
come back)
>>
>
> Inspiring too to get people around 
>
> Just some quick comments:
>
> Please take a look at the mailing lists' archive so you
can get some
> background info on previously debated approaches to
evolution
> (searching for 'spring', hibernate, pojo, turbine 2.4, 
might help).
> There have been lots of talking about it, and even the
wiki holds some
> interesting info about migrating toward a more
service-oriented
> architecture (not necessarily tied to any given
container)
> There's even a http://scarab-inc
ubator.tigris.org/ where we tried to
> evolve some experiments (though it didn't get too much
traction)
>
> And now, some personal ideas, thrown out in no intended
order:
> - let's follow the agnostic way.
> - Think of services, pojos, don't get tied to
anything.
> - Isolate the data layer so you can change it 'if
needed'.
> - Build a good business layer you can later evolve,
publish, use from
> GWT, EclipseRCP, XmlRPC,XFire,whatever web framework
you prefer,
> etc....
> - Don't try to change the whole world, at least not at
once.
>
> _
> Jorge
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org
>

Mvh Killi

--
Roall Lein-Killi; mob +47 97 66 00 72; fax +47 22 33 60 24
Kongens gate 14; Boks 805 Sentrum, 0104 Oslo; Norway
http://www.conduct.no;
mailto:roall.lein-killiconduct.no

Conduct AS - Professional Open Source
Red Hat and JBoss Authorized Integration Partner
Atlassian Partner
Pentaho Preferred Integration Partner







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Andrey; given our current lack of resources (I'm myself
devoting more
time than I really have to answering emails :-( ), I think
that we
should try to not form efforts.

That said, my approach for Scarab is that any revolution be
done
step-by-step (oximoron, I know )
I don't even know what new features/bugfixes do we have
pending for a
0.22, sorry.

_
Jorge

On 2/22/08, Ларионов Андрей <larionovarsplus.ru> wrote:
> My main question was: Is I will be more useful for
participating in 0.22 release process, or I should continue
working on future release?
>
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Jorge Uriarte Aretxaga
[mailto:jorge.uriarteomelas.net]
>  > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:11 PM
>  > To: devscarab.tigris.org
>  > Subject: Re: I'm Back
>  >
>  > On 2/22/08, Roall Lein-Killi
<roall.lein-killiconduct.no> wrote:
>  > >  Good timing. (Inpiring for a new dud to see
people come back)
>  > >
>  >
>  > Inspiring too to get people around 
>  >
>  > Just some quick comments:
>  >
>  > Please take a look at the mailing lists' archive
so you can get some
>  > background info on previously debated approaches
to evolution
>  > (searching for 'spring', hibernate, pojo, turbine
2.4,  might help).
>  > There have been lots of talking about it, and
even the wiki holds some
>  > interesting info about migrating toward a more
service-oriented
>  > architecture (not necessarily tied to any given
container)
>  > There's even a http://scarab-inc
ubator.tigris.org/ where we tried to
>  > evolve some experiments (though it didn't get too
much traction)
>  >
>  > And now, some personal ideas, thrown out in no
intended order:
>  > - let's follow the agnostic way.
>  > - Think of services, pojos, don't get tied to
anything.
>  > - Isolate the data layer so you can change it 'if
needed'.
>  > - Build a good business layer you can later
evolve, publish, use from
>  > GWT, EclipseRCP, XmlRPC,XFire,whatever web
framework you prefer,
>  > etc....
>  > - Don't try to change the whole world, at least
not at once.
>  >
>  > _
>  > Jorge
>  >
>
> >
------------------------------------------------------------
---------
>  > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
>  > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org
>
>
> 
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---------
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
>  For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org
>
>

My main question was: Is I will be more useful for
participating in 0.22 release process, or I should continue
working on future release?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jorge Uriarte Aretxaga [mailto:jorge.uriarteomelas.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:11 PM
> To: devscarab.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: I'm Back
> 
> On 2/22/08, Roall Lein-Killi <roall.lein-killiconduct.no> wrote:
> >  Good timing. (Inpiring for a new dud to see
people come back)
> >
> 
> Inspiring too to get people around 
> 
> Just some quick comments:
> 
> Please take a look at the mailing lists' archive so you
can get some
> background info on previously debated approaches to
evolution
> (searching for 'spring', hibernate, pojo, turbine 2.4, 
might help).
> There have been lots of talking about it, and even the
wiki holds some
> interesting info about migrating toward a more
service-oriented
> architecture (not necessarily tied to any given
container)
> There's even a http://scarab-inc
ubator.tigris.org/ where we tried to
> evolve some experiments (though it didn't get too much
traction)
> 
> And now, some personal ideas, thrown out in no intended
order:
> - let's follow the agnostic way.
> - Think of services, pojos, don't get tied to
anything.
> - Isolate the data layer so you can change it 'if
needed'.
> - Build a good business layer you can later evolve,
publish, use from
> GWT, EclipseRCP, XmlRPC,XFire,whatever web framework
you prefer,
> etc....
> - Don't try to change the whole world, at least not at
once.
> 
> _
> Jorge
> 
>
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---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org


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My feeling is that any planning will assume some resource
dedication,
so I don't think any tool will help (and that being said by
an scrum
master, jajaja...)

So we better go step-by-step. Let's review our tracker,
let's talk
about future changes, let's make a realistic roadmap.
Previous experiences in this project resulted in zero or
little
progress, because of our failure in allocating the amount of
working
hours. Let's learn from the past.

_
Jorge

On 2/22/08, Roall Lein-Killi <roall.lein-killiconduct.no> wrote:
> I think we're in the same pragmatic world, Jorge.
>
>  Hopefully we could define user stories and
requirements so we're
>  able to write some good tests. Then we could play a
lot.
>
>  I'll drop any technology discussions (mostly) and line
up for the
>  business needs.
>
>  Any ideas about how we could do the planning? Any
agile tools?
>
>
>  Killi
>
>
>  On 22. feb.. 2008, at 11.11, Jorge Uriarte Aretxaga
wrote:
>
>  > On 2/22/08, Roall Lein-Killi
<roall.lein-killiconduct.no> wrote:
>  >> Good timing. (Inpiring for a new dud to see
people come back)
>  >>
>  >
>  > Inspiring too to get people around 
>  >
>  > Just some quick comments:
>  >
>  > Please take a look at the mailing lists' archive
so you can get some
>  > background info on previously debated approaches
to evolution
>  > (searching for 'spring', hibernate, pojo, turbine
2.4,  might help).
>  > There have been lots of talking about it, and
even the wiki holds some
>  > interesting info about migrating toward a more
service-oriented
>  > architecture (not necessarily tied to any given
container)
>  > There's even a http://scarab-inc
ubator.tigris.org/ where we tried to
>  > evolve some experiments (though it didn't get too
much traction)
>  >
>  > And now, some personal ideas, thrown out in no
intended order:
>  > - let's follow the agnostic way.
>  > - Think of services, pojos, don't get tied to
anything.
>  > - Isolate the data layer so you can change it 'if
needed'.
>  > - Build a good business layer you can later
evolve, publish, use from
>  > GWT, EclipseRCP, XmlRPC,XFire,whatever web
framework you prefer,
>  > etc....
>  > - Don't try to change the whole world, at least
not at once.
>  >
>  > _
>  > Jorge
>  >
>
> >
------------------------------------------------------------
---------
>  > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
>  > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org
>  >
>
>  Mvh Killi
>
>  --
>  Roall Lein-Killi; mob +47 97 66 00 72; fax +47 22 33
60 24
>  Kongens gate 14; Boks 805 Sentrum, 0104 Oslo; Norway
>  http://www.conduct.no;
mailto:roall.lein-killiconduct.no
>
>  Conduct AS - Professional Open Source
>  Red Hat and JBoss Authorized Integration Partner
>  Atlassian Partner
>  Pentaho Preferred Integration Partner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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---------
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
>  For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org
>
>

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My idea is making long-terms improvements sequentaly:
1. Port to turbine 2.4. This remove Torque dependency and
makes possible to use authenticated XML-RPC server, to
define External API
2. Create and define XML-RPC API
3. Improve search capabilities
4. Possibly change ORM engine
5. Possibly change web-framework
And so on.

I Think now we can't to completely rewrite Scarab, it's to
difficult, but moving step by step we can resolve some past
mistakes.
If talking about separating business logic, I can resume
what now business logic too tight integrated with
web-framework components. And it decoupling can't be done in
one moment.
But general movement should begin from stabilizing and
organizing of application architecture. There are to many
code which need a peer review.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ларионов Андрей [mailto:larionovarsplus.ru]
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:01 PM
> To: devscarab.tigris.org
> Subject: I'm Back
> 
> Hello, all.
> I'm just finished my diploma and want to continue
develop of Scarab.
> There are some mine minds on it in blog article http://digital-
> grail.blogspot.com/2008/02/scarab-should-survive.html.
That all are not
> absolutely necessary. This is my vision of main 1.0
features. But there is
> a 0.22 release.
> I want to ask all developers:
> Should I take some problems on 0.22 or there is will be
people who finish
> this work? Now make more then 50% of work on porting
scarab to Turbine 2.4
> and I want to continue. But I can do a contribute to
0.22 to speed up
> release.
> 
> What I should do?
> 
>
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It seems that you got your priorities in order  If XML-RPC
allows  
us to get a Mylar connector working
I'll commit.

Anyone tried scarab with psql 8.3?

On 22. feb.. 2008, at 12.24, Ларионов Андрей wrote:

>
> My idea is making long-terms improvements sequentaly:
> 1. Port to turbine 2.4. This remove Torque dependency
and makes  
> possible to use authenticated XML-RPC server, to define
External API
> 2. Create and define XML-RPC API
> 3. Improve search capabilities
> 4. Possibly change ORM engine
> 5. Possibly change web-framework
> And so on.
>
> I Think now we can't to completely rewrite Scarab, it's
to  
> difficult, but moving step by step we can resolve some
past mistakes.
> If talking about separating business logic, I can
resume what now  
> business logic too tight integrated with web-framework
components.  
> And it decoupling can't be done in one moment.
> But general movement should begin from stabilizing and
organizing of  
> application architecture. There are to many code which
need a peer  
> review.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ларионов Андрей [mailto:larionovarsplus.ru]
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:01 PM
>> To: devscarab.tigris.org
>> Subject: I'm Back
>>
>> Hello, all.
>> I'm just finished my diploma and want to continue
develop of Scarab.
>> There are some mine minds on it in blog article http://digital-
>>
grail.blogspot.com/2008/02/scarab-should-survive.html. That
all are  
>> not
>> absolutely necessary. This is my vision of main 1.0
features. But  
>> there is
>> a 0.22 release.
>> I want to ask all developers:
>> Should I take some problems on 0.22 or there is
will be people who  
>> finish
>> this work? Now make more then 50% of work on
porting scarab to  
>> Turbine 2.4
>> and I want to continue. But I can do a contribute
to 0.22 to speed up
>> release.
>>
>> What I should do?
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribescarab.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-helpscarab.tigris.org
>
>
>
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>

Mvh Killi

--
Roall Lein-Killi; mob +47 97 66 00 72; fax +47 22 33 60 24
Kongens gate 14; Boks 805 Sentrum, 0104 Oslo; Norway
http://www.conduct.no;
mailto:roall.lein-killiconduct.no

Conduct AS - Professional Open Source
Red Hat and JBoss Authorized Integration Partner
Atlassian Partner
Pentaho Preferred Integration Partner







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