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Thread: Hopefully final agenda for SIP at IETF 70




Hopefully final agenda for SIP at IETF 70
country flaguser name
United States
2007-11-29 14:34:52

Agenda revised again. Since Vijay won't be there to talk about connect-reuse, we'll tackle the candidates for the essential corrections process.


Session 1, Monday December 3, 1740-1950 Salon A/B

Start Time
Topic
Discussion Lead
Reading List
1740
Agenda Bash and Status
Chairs
This document
1800
Location Conveyance
Brian Rosen
James Polk
1830
INFO Harmful
Eric Burger
1900
INFO Events
Hadriel Kaplan
1930
Essential corrections
Keith Drage

draft-gurbani-sip-ipv6-abnf-fix-00
draft-hilt-sip-correction-503-01
draft-dotson-sip-mutual-auth-00
draft-sparks-sip-invfix-00

1950
End



Session 2, Wednesday December 5, 0900-1130, Salon A/B

Start Time
Topic
Discussion Lead
Reading List
0900
Agenda Bash
Chairs
This Document
0910
Outbound
Rohan Mahy
1000
RPH In Responses
James Polk
Janet Gunn

draft-gunn-sip-req-for-rph-in-responses-00.txt

1030
Media Identity
Dan Wing
1055
DTLS Framework
Eric Rescorla
Jason Fischl
1130
End


Mutual Auth: Enhancement, not correction
country flaguser name
United States
2007-11-29 15:53:12
On 11/29/07 2:34 PM, Dean Willis wrote:
> 1930
> 	
> Essential corrections
> 	
> Keith Drage
> 	
> draft-ietf-sip-record-route-fix-01 
> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sip-recor
d-route-fix-01>
>
> draft-gurbani-sip-ipv6-abnf-fix-00 
> <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/draft-gurban
i-sip-ipv6-abnf-fix-00.txt>
> draft-hilt-sip-correction-503-01 
> <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/draft-hilt-sip
-correction-503-01.txt>
> draft-dotson-sip-mutual-auth-00 
> <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/draft-dotson-si
p-mutual-auth-00.txt>
> draft-sparks-sip-invfix-00 
> <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/draft-sparks-sip-inv
fix-00.txt>
>
>
*
*Why are we considering draft-dotson-sip-mutual-auth for
inclusion in 
the essential corrections process? Don't get me wrong -- the
mechanism 
described in the document seems like a useful _extension_ to
SIP, but 
it's hardly correcting something that's broken. I think
things will get 
very confusing if we start couching _enhancements_ in terms
of deltas to 
RFC 3261.

/a


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Re: Mutual Auth: Enhancement, not correction
country flaguser name
United States
2007-11-30 00:05:46
On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Adam Roach wrote:

>> *
> *Why are we considering draft-dotson-sip-mutual-auth
for inclusion  
> in the essential corrections process? Don't get me
wrong -- the  
> mechanism described in the document seems like a useful
_extension_  
> to SIP, but it's hardly correcting something that's
broken. I think  
> things will get very confusing if we start couching
_enhancements_  
> in terms of deltas to RFC 3261.
>

the argument goes that this was a bug in RFC 3261:

RFC 2543 had this to say about the Authentication-Info
headers:

14.3 Digest Authentication

    The rules for digest authentication follow those defined
in [36],
    with "HTTP 1.1" replaced by
"SIP/2.0" in addition to the following
    differences:
         4.   The Authentication-Info and
Proxy-Authentication-Info
              fields are not used in SIP.

But by the time we did RFC 3261, we had decided that mutual 

authentication using digest was important, so we added:

20.6 Authentication-Info

    The Authentication-Info header field provides for
mutual
    authentication with HTTP Digest.  A UAS MAY include this
header  
field
    in a 2xx response to a request that was successfully
authenticated
    using digest based on the Authorization header field.

    Syntax and semantics follow those specified in RFC 2617
[17].

    Example:

       Authentication-Info:
nextnonce="47364c23432d2e131a5fb210812c"

But for some currently unknown reason, we forgot to add the
also- 
important Proxy-Authentication-Info header back in.

Now, is that a bug in the spec that needs correction, or is
it an  
enhancement? Enquiring minds want to know.

--
Dean




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RE: Mutual Auth: Enhancement, not correction
country flaguser name
United States
2007-11-30 05:13:26
I got halfway through my answer to Adam, and discovered Dean
had got
there first. 

Dean has answered all the technical issues, although
feedback would be
useful from the large number of people that got involved in
the final
delivery of RFC 3261 on how Proxy-Authentication-Info was
omitted at the
time that the Authentication-Info header was added (we've
asked the key
people who supposedly did this section and not got any
input). 

That leads me only to add:

The SIP WG does it, whether it is an bugfix or not, so the
progression
will not be so different, one way or the other. (In security
issues SIP
does both the requirements and the protocol).

But the floor is open on all these to indicate:

-	progress rapidly
-	reject
-	more discussion needed
-	treat as a normal extension

And we would welcome such input to the list - if time
permits in
Vancouver we will also be asking this at the end of one of
the sessions.

Regards

Keith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willissoftarmor.com] 
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:06 AM
> To: Adam Roach
> Cc: sipietf.org List; Cullen Jennings; DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
> Subject: Re: [Sip] Mutual Auth: Enhancement, not
correction
> 
> 
> On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Adam Roach wrote:
> 
> >> *
> > *Why are we considering
draft-dotson-sip-mutual-auth for 
> inclusion in 
> > the essential corrections process? Don't get me
wrong -- 
> the mechanism 
> > described in the document seems like a useful
_extension_ 
> to SIP, but 
> > it's hardly correcting something that's broken. I
think things will 
> > get very confusing if we start couching
_enhancements_ in terms of 
> > deltas to RFC 3261.
> >
> 
> the argument goes that this was a bug in RFC 3261:
> 
> RFC 2543 had this to say about the Authentication-Info
headers:
> 
> 14.3 Digest Authentication
> 
>     The rules for digest authentication follow those
defined in [36],
>     with "HTTP 1.1" replaced by
"SIP/2.0" in addition to the following
>     differences:
>          4.   The Authentication-Info and
Proxy-Authentication-Info
>               fields are not used in SIP.
> 
> But by the time we did RFC 3261, we had decided that
mutual 
> authentication using digest was important, so we
added:
> 
> 20.6 Authentication-Info
> 
>     The Authentication-Info header field provides for
mutual
>     authentication with HTTP Digest.  A UAS MAY include
this 
> header field
>     in a 2xx response to a request that was
successfully authenticated
>     using digest based on the Authorization header
field.
> 
>     Syntax and semantics follow those specified in RFC
2617 [17].
> 
>     Example:
> 
>        Authentication-Info:
nextnonce="47364c23432d2e131a5fb210812c"
> 
> But for some currently unknown reason, we forgot to add
the 
> also- important Proxy-Authentication-Info header back
in.
> 
> Now, is that a bug in the spec that needs correction,
or is 
> it an enhancement? Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> --
> Dean
> 
> 
> 


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Re: Mutual Auth: Enhancement, not correction
country flaguser name
Czech Republic
2007-11-30 12:31:47
At 16:58 30/11/2007, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
>I don't actually recall explicitly deciding to reject
Proxy-Authentication-Info; however it was a long time ago.
But anyway, its water under the bridge. Clearly its not
there.
>
>That said, I agree with Adam and do not think this is an
essential correction. Its a new feature. It adds proxy to
user authentication. 

However, the capability to authenticate proxy servers can
help to address an ugly security gap: 
relay attacks. Such can be orchestrated fairly easily (e.g.,
without eavesdropping
capability) now and allow impersonation of a user. That
said, it appears a piece of work to
me which deserves appropriate attention. 

-jiri

>Indeed, I think its clearly the case that there are
differing requirements driving user to proxy authentication
than there are driving the reverse (one is for protecting
against fraud, the other against malicious proxies).
>
>-Jonathan R.



--
Jiri Kuthan            http://iptel.org/~jiri/



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This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementorscs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sippingietf.org for new developments on the application of
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