Re: MESSAGE for rendering

On Dec 18, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:

> I think application/im-iscomposing+xml IS rendered; and
its  
> rendering causes the UI to show that the user is
typing.
>

I think INVITE is rendered, and its rendering causes the
uses phone  
to make a ringing nose that causes the user to press a
button that  
causes a new message to be sent.

> As a litmus test for this stuff, a question is whether
it can  
> reasonably be converted to a text/plain content and
sent in a  
> MESSAGE, and if it is rendered, is the resulting
behavior  
> reasonable. For the iscomposing indicators, I think you
could. You  
> could instead send a text IM like "Joe is typing a
reply..." and  
> render that, and this would achieve the same
objective.

If you displayed the current iscomposing object on  the
screen, I'm  
afraid you'd just confuse my mom. It's not just text.

Before you send it, you really need to know that the other
end  
understands what you mean. That's the crux of what is wrong
with INFO  
today.

> Also, I would not want to send iscomposing over the SIP
dialog - I  
> think it should be on the media path. There will be a
LOT of them,  
> and there is a requirement for timeliness. See my other
note on the  
> criteria for sending something in dialog vs. along the
media path.
>

Well, that's reasonable, but we have what we have, and
that's a SIP  
message for iscomposing, and probably some IPR on that too.

--
Dean


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Dean Willis wrote:
> 
> On Dec 18, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
> 
>> I think application/im-iscomposing+xml IS rendered;
and its rendering 
>> causes the UI to show that the user is typing.
>>
> 
> I think INVITE is rendered, and its rendering causes
the uses phone to 
> make a ringing nose that causes the user to press a
button that causes a 
> new message to be sent.
> 
>> As a litmus test for this stuff, a question is
whether it can 
>> reasonably be converted to a text/plain content and
sent in a MESSAGE, 
>> and if it is rendered, is the resulting behavior
reasonable. For the 
>> iscomposing indicators, I think you could. You
could instead send a 
>> text IM like "Joe is typing a reply..."
and render that, and this 
>> would achieve the same objective.
> 
> If you displayed the current iscomposing object on  the
screen, I'm 
> afraid you'd just confuse my mom. It's not just text.
> 
> Before you send it, you really need to know that the
other end 
> understands what you mean. That's the crux of what is
wrong with INFO 
> today.

Do you think its ok for the message to contain html?

If you rendered html text directly it would also confuse
your mom.

Whatever is sent is just an *encoding* that must be
translated into a 
meaningful rendering for the recipient.

	Paul


_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://ww
w1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementorscs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sippingietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip

Perhaps the salient difference isn't whether the contents
are directly  
rendered (or indirectly rendered), but whether there are
additional  
side-effects that alter an application-level state machine.

On Dec 19, 2007, at 12:21 AM, Dean Willis wrote:

>
> On Dec 18, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> I think application/im-iscomposing+xml IS rendered;
and its  
>> rendering causes the UI to show that the user is
typing.
>>
>
> I think INVITE is rendered, and its rendering causes
the uses phone  
> to make a ringing nose that causes the user to press a
button that  
> causes a new message to be sent.
>
>> As a litmus test for this stuff, a question is
whether it can  
>> reasonably be converted to a text/plain content and
sent in a  
>> MESSAGE, and if it is rendered, is the resulting
behavior  
>> reasonable. For the iscomposing indicators, I think
you could. You  
>> could instead send a text IM like "Joe is
typing a reply..." and  
>> render that, and this would achieve the same
objective.
>
> If you displayed the current iscomposing object on  the
screen, I'm  
> afraid you'd just confuse my mom. It's not just text.
>
> Before you send it, you really need to know that the
other end  
> understands what you mean. That's the crux of what is
wrong with  
> INFO today.
>
>> Also, I would not want to send iscomposing over the
SIP dialog - I  
>> think it should be on the media path. There will be
a LOT of them,  
>> and there is a requirement for timeliness. See my
other note on the  
>> criteria for sending something in dialog vs. along
the media path.
>>
>
> Well, that's reasonable, but we have what we have, and
that's a SIP  
> message for iscomposing, and probably some IPR on that
too.
>
> --
> Dean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sip mailing list  https://ww
w1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP
Protocol
> Use sip-implementorscs.columbia.edu for
questions on current sip
> Use sippingietf.org for new developments on the
application of sip


_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://ww
w1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementorscs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sippingietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip