|
List Info
Thread: Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00
|
|
| Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00 |

|
2008-02-26 18:36:51 |
$Id: draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00-rev.txt,v 1.1 2008/02/27
00:16:00 ekr Exp $
SIP has seen several attempts to use cryptographic
signatures
to provide data origin authentication for SIP messages:
- RFC 3261 provided for S/MIME digital signatures by the
end-user.
- RFC 4474 provided for "Identity" signatures by
an
authentication proxy.
The RFC 3261 S/MIME scheme has seen almost no deployment.
This was
generally attributed to the difficulty of users obtaining
certificates. RFC 4474 was explicitly designed to avoid
end-user
certs and is comparatively new so we don't know what kind
of deployment it will see.
This document describes an alternate mechanism using
"Identity Based
Signatures". This is a little complicated to explain,
but here's
the basic overview:
In a conventional asymmetric (public key) scheme, you
generate your own key pair, consisting of a public key and
a private key. Then when someone wants to encrypt to you,
they encrypt under your public key and you decrypt with
the private key. But how do people get your public key,
and how do they know it's yours? That's what certificates
are for. A certificate, of course, is a credential that
binds your name to your public key. But this is all kind of
inconvenient if you want to encrypt to someone who you've
never talked to before, because you need to get their
certificate,
which brings up directory issues.
Identity-Based Encryption is a scheme that does without
the certificates. The idea is that you have two algorithms:
- P(string) which converts any string into a public key
- p(string, K) which converts any string into its
corresponding
private key.
K, of course, is a secret master parameter. So, instead of
having a certificate authority you have a key generator
(KG)
which knows K. KG's policy is only to issue private key
p(<name>, K) to the owner of <name> (this is the
same
policy as the CA would have, of course).
So, when you want to encrypt to "alice example.com" you encrypt
to P("alice example.com") secure in the knowledge
that only
Alice could have gotten the private key. The nice thing
about
this is that there is no need to have a certificate
directory
because the public key is directly computable from the
SIP URI. Where this seems useful is in settings where you
want to encrypt to people you have had no prior contact
with, like e-mail.
(more on this at
http://www.rtfm.com/movabletype/archives/2003_07.htm
l#000315).
Unsurprisingly, IBE has a signature variant. In a
conventional
public key system, when you want to sign a message you send
along [Message, Signature, Certificate]. The recipient
extracts
your public key from the certificate and then verifies the
signature. In Identity Based Signatures (IBS), you can
do without the cert: the sender just send
[Message, Signature, Identity] since the receiver can
compute
the public key directly from the Identity.
It shouldn't be hard to see that this is a lot less
interesting
than IBE, since pretty much by definition the verifier is
reading a message from the signer and so the signer can
include a copy of (or a reference to) his certificate.
So, all this really does is provide a bit of message
compression.
With all that in mind, this document describes how to use a
variant of Identity Based Signatures with SIP Identity.
Now, I've oversimplified a little bit, because there are
two other features it uses (neither of which are actually
that desirable).
- "Signcryption". When Alice sends a message to
Bob, she
can structure her signature so that only Bob can verify
it. This pretty clearly interacts badly with retargeting.
- Hierarchical IBS. The system I described has only one
key generator, but it's possible to use crypto to
delegate
authority so that there is a central KG which delegates
"example.com" to one sub-KG and
"example.org" to another.
This doesn't make a lot of sense in an RFC4474
environment
since there's only one key for any domain anyway.
The only thing that this document really does is allow you
to avoid having to have the trivial Web site RFC 4474
requires
you to have (or contract for) to stick your certificate on.
However, when you weigh that against the fact that the
number
of CAs issuing identity-based signature keys currently
stands
at 0, that seems to be a pretty marginal advantage.
-Ekr
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list http://www.i
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors cs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sipping ietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip
|
|
| Re: Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00 |
  United States |
2008-02-27 00:47:23 |
Cool.
So if I understand this right (and I probably don't),
ignoring rfc4474 identity and IBS for a moment and instead
thinking about SRTP and IBE: I could use IBE to encrypt the
security-descriptions attribute value using the intended
target's SIP URI as a key, and only someone owning that URI
(and sharing the same KG) or the KG itself could decrypt it
to learn the sec-desc cleartext to use?
-hadriel
p.s. the KG would actually be a problem for IBE, wouldn't
it? I mean the KG can always decrypt it. (at which point
they would be the Key Generator Backdoor - aka, the KGB ;)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sip-bounces ietf.org [mailto:sip-bounces ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Eric
> Rescorla
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:37 PM
> To: sip ietf.org
> Cc: draft-kupwade-sip-iba tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [Sip] Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00
>
> $Id: draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00-rev.txt,v 1.1 2008/02/27
00:16:00 ekr Exp $
>
> SIP has seen several attempts to use cryptographic
signatures
> to provide data origin authentication for SIP
messages:
>
> - RFC 3261 provided for S/MIME digital signatures by
the
> end-user.
> - RFC 4474 provided for "Identity" signatures
by an
> authentication proxy.
>
> The RFC 3261 S/MIME scheme has seen almost no
deployment. This was
> generally attributed to the difficulty of users
obtaining
> certificates. RFC 4474 was explicitly designed to avoid
end-user
> certs and is comparatively new so we don't know what
kind
> of deployment it will see.
>
> This document describes an alternate mechanism using
"Identity Based
> Signatures". This is a little complicated to
explain, but here's
> the basic overview:
>
> In a conventional asymmetric (public key) scheme, you
> generate your own key pair, consisting of a public key
and
> a private key. Then when someone wants to encrypt to
you,
> they encrypt under your public key and you decrypt
with
> the private key. But how do people get your public
key,
> and how do they know it's yours? That's what
certificates
> are for. A certificate, of course, is a credential
that
> binds your name to your public key. But this is all
kind of
> inconvenient if you want to encrypt to someone who
you've
> never talked to before, because you need to get their
certificate,
> which brings up directory issues.
>
> Identity-Based Encryption is a scheme that does
without
> the certificates. The idea is that you have two
algorithms:
>
> - P(string) which converts any string into a public
key
> - p(string, K) which converts any string into its
corresponding
> private key.
>
> K, of course, is a secret master parameter. So, instead
of
> having a certificate authority you have a key generator
(KG)
> which knows K. KG's policy is only to issue private
key
> p(<name>, K) to the owner of <name> (this
is the same
> policy as the CA would have, of course).
>
> So, when you want to encrypt to "alice example.com" you encrypt
> to P("alice example.com") secure in the knowledge
that only
> Alice could have gotten the private key. The nice thing
about
> this is that there is no need to have a certificate
directory
> because the public key is directly computable from the
> SIP URI. Where this seems useful is in settings where
you
> want to encrypt to people you have had no prior
contact
> with, like e-mail.
> (more on this at
> http://www.rtfm.com/movabletype/archives/2003_07.htm
l#000315).
>
> Unsurprisingly, IBE has a signature variant. In a
conventional
> public key system, when you want to sign a message you
send
> along [Message, Signature, Certificate]. The recipient
extracts
> your public key from the certificate and then verifies
the
> signature. In Identity Based Signatures (IBS), you can
> do without the cert: the sender just send
> [Message, Signature, Identity] since the receiver can
compute
> the public key directly from the Identity.
>
> It shouldn't be hard to see that this is a lot less
interesting
> than IBE, since pretty much by definition the verifier
is
> reading a message from the signer and so the signer
can
> include a copy of (or a reference to) his certificate.
> So, all this really does is provide a bit of message
compression.
>
> With all that in mind, this document describes how to
use a
> variant of Identity Based Signatures with SIP
Identity.
> Now, I've oversimplified a little bit, because there
are
> two other features it uses (neither of which are
actually
> that desirable).
>
> - "Signcryption". When Alice sends a message
to Bob, she
> can structure her signature so that only Bob can
verify
> it. This pretty clearly interacts badly with
retargeting.
> - Hierarchical IBS. The system I described has only
one
> key generator, but it's possible to use crypto to
delegate
> authority so that there is a central KG which
delegates
> "example.com" to one sub-KG and
"example.org" to another.
> This doesn't make a lot of sense in an RFC4474
environment
> since there's only one key for any domain anyway.
>
> The only thing that this document really does is allow
you
> to avoid having to have the trivial Web site RFC 4474
requires
> you to have (or contract for) to stick your certificate
on.
> However, when you weigh that against the fact that the
number
> of CAs issuing identity-based signature keys currently
stands
> at 0, that seems to be a pretty marginal advantage.
>
> -Ekr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sip mailing list http://www.i
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP
Protocol
> Use sip-implementors cs.columbia.edu for
questions on current sip
> Use sipping ietf.org for new developments on the
application of sip
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list https://www
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors cs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sipping ietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip
|
|
| Re: Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00 |

|
2008-02-27 08:14:31 |
At Wed, 27 Feb 2008 01:47:23 -0500,
Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
>
> Cool. So if I understand this right (and I probably
don't),
> ignoring rfc4474 identity and IBS for a moment and
instead thinking
> about SRTP and IBE: I could use IBE to encrypt the
> security-descriptions attribute value using the
intended target's
> SIP URI as a key, and only someone owning that URI (and
sharing the
> same KG) or the KG itself could decrypt it to learn the
sec-desc
> cleartext to use?
Yeah. This is how Voltage's email system works. (Seriously,
read the blog post I pointed at, whcih explains all this).
But of course this doesn't work correctly with a bunch of
retargeting scenarios. This is basically orthogonal to
MIKEY RSA mdoe, except that instead of doing certificate
retrieval you need to do parameter retrieval, and only
once for the domain.
Another sort-of-weird feature here is that you can encrypt
to
someone who hasn't registered with the system, and then
they can register *afterward*. That works with email but
of course is too slow for VoIP.
> -hadriel p.s. the KG would actually be a problem for
IBE, wouldn't
> it? I mean the KG can always decrypt it. (at which
point they would
> be the Key Generator Backdoor - aka, the KGB ;)
Yeah. This feature is generally referred to as
"escrow" and is
one of the reasons why people don't want to have a single
global KG.
-Ekr
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list https://www
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors cs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sipping ietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip
|
|
| Re: Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00 |
  United States |
2008-02-28 12:33:17 |
Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
> Cool. So if I understand this right (and I probably
don't), ignoring
> rfc4474 identity and IBS for a moment and instead
thinking about SRTP
> and IBE: I could use IBE to encrypt the
security-descriptions
> attribute value using the intended target's SIP URI as
a key, and
> only someone owning that URI (and sharing the same KG)
or the KG
> itself could decrypt it to learn the sec-desc cleartext
to use?
Actually, there are partial-key models where the KG couldn't
decrypt it
either.
There are modes of operation that allow the full private key
to be a
product of a secret (retained by the user) and the output of
the PKG.
Hence you need to know both parts to decrypt or sign a
message.
> -hadriel p.s. the KG would actually be a problem for
IBE, wouldn't
> it? I mean the KG can always decrypt it. (at which
point they would
> be the Key Generator Backdoor - aka, the KGB ;)
Yep. Early IB systems worked as you describe. But they don't
HAVE to
work that way.
--
Dean
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list https://www
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors cs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sipping ietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip
|
|
| Re: Review of draft-kupwade-sip-iba-00 |

|
2008-02-28 12:49:24 |
At Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:33:17 -0600,
Dean Willis wrote:
>
> Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
> > Cool. So if I understand this right (and I
probably don't), ignoring
> > rfc4474 identity and IBS for a moment and instead
thinking about SRTP
> > and IBE: I could use IBE to encrypt the
security-descriptions
> > attribute value using the intended target's SIP
URI as a key, and
> > only someone owning that URI (and sharing the same
KG) or the KG
> > itself could decrypt it to learn the sec-desc
cleartext to use?
>
> Actually, there are partial-key models where the KG
couldn't decrypt it
> either.
>
> There are modes of operation that allow the full
private key to be a
> product of a secret (retained by the user) and the
output of the PKG.
> Hence you need to know both parts to decrypt or sign a
message.
Not precisely.
1. There are schemes which have multiple KGs which all have
to cooperate
in order to recover the private key (that's what Harsh
referred
to the other day).
2. There are "forward secure" schemes (Gentry) in
which the
KG forgets your private key and the ability to regenerate
it.
However, both of these still have escrow as a sort of
inherent property.
It's pretty easy to see that any true IBE scheme has to have
escrow:
The fundamental IBE property is that any random person can
encrypt
to any identity I knowing only the public system parameters
P_pub,
and then for the KG to be able to provide the appropriate
K_priv
from P_priv and I.
In order for this to work, you need to be able to compute:
- K_pub = F1(P_pub, I)
- K_priv = F2(P_priv, I)
If the user provides some information X that's not known to
the KG
*and* X is required to decrypt, then it clearly must affect
K_pub, i.e.,
- K_pub = F1(P_pub, I, X)
But that violates the invariant that K_pub is
deterministically
generated from I and P_pub--and it's precisely this
invariant that
makes IBE interesting.
This doesn't apply to IBS, of course, since there's no
requirement
that the verifier be able to independently compute K_pub.
In
fact, one could argue under one definition that a PKI scheme
is
an IBS scheme and that X is the user's public key and F1 is
certificate verification. But it's precusely because this
invariant
isn't interesting in IBS that IBS doesn't add much value
over
PKI.
> Yep. Early IB systems worked as you describe. But they
don't HAVE to
> work that way.
Citations, please?
-Ekr
_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list https://www
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors cs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sipping ietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip
|
|
[1-5]
|
|