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Thread: draft-koivusalo-sip-outbound-discovery to rely on NAPTR or TXT records ?




draft-koivusalo-sip-outbound-discovery to rely on NAPTR or TXT records ?
user name
2006-05-23 07:49:25
 
Hi !

I have finally got some time to study the SIP Outbound 
autodiscovery further based on the comments given to the
I-D. The choice betweeen DNS NAPTR and TXT records seems
to be a difficult one. The two options proposed are as 
follows:

A. Define new values for NAPTR service field as
"SIP-O+D2X", 
   where X will be replaced with a letter indicating
transport
   protocol. Service "SIP-O" means support for
SIP Outbound,
   while "SIPS-O" indicates additional TLS/SIPS
URI support.

B. Associate DNS TXT records with the SRV records for
servers
   supporting SIP Outbound. Those TXT records would contain
a
   value like "sip-outbound" when server
supports SIP Outbound.
   Further on define a new "t" flag for SRV
records to give a
   hint to the server to return all related TXT record as
   additional information.

The benefits (+) and drawbacks (-) of these solutions seem
to 
be as follows:

A. NAPTR records

 + When responding to one NAPTR query the DNS server
typically returns 
   not only the NAPTR records but also the related SRV and
address 
   records as the NAPTR and SRV RFCs already suggest doing
so. Thus
   with a single DNS query the UA would get all the needed
information.

 + Using different NAPTR service types for SIP Outbound
would make it
   straightforward for an operator to divide its servers to
two farms:
   Servers with SIP Outbound to be used by clients of the
service
   provider and servers without SIP Outbound to be used by
external
   UAs. As the external UAs would NOT need SIP Outbound,
when they
   resolve the SIP URI of callee in the conventional (RFC
3263) way,
   the result would be those servers without SIP Outbound
support,
   which is the desired outcome.

 - Both the UA and DNS server would have to support NAPTR
RRs, which
   is not always the case currently. Some DNS service
providers do not
   allow NAPTR RRs and the UA support is not always there.

 - The number of NAPTR service types for SIP would double
(from current
   five to ten) and as indicated in RFC 3486, this is not a
scalable
   way of using DNS. If in the future yet another
combination would be
   needed to double the number of NAPTR service types for
SIP, then
   there would be 20 types, which sounds excessive.

B. TXT records

 + There are no combinatorial problems by introducing new
flags into
   TXT records, since any new flag is just another text
string to be
   added amongst the others.

 + Adding TXT RR support for UAs does not seem a very
challenging task,
   whether or not the UA already supports NAPTR RRs.

 - There is no built-in way for the service provider to
prevent the
clients
   of other service providers to resolve SIP URIs to proxies
supporting
   SIP Outbound (aimed to be used only by the local clients
as outbound
   proxies for NAT traversal).

 - If the server does not understand or obey the new
"t" flag of SRV
   RR, then the UA has to separately query the TXT records
for every
   SRV record it tries to use. This might lead to N x TXT RR
queries
   before the SIP server has finally been located. 

 - Both the UA and DNS server would have to support TXT RRs,
however
   even those are not allowed by some DNS service providers
even if
   the servers might already support those almost
universally.


For the pure technical point of view I am currently slightly

inclined towards using TXT records, but NAPTR also has its
advantages.

However I am worried about the fact that TXT records are
almost too "general purpose" and I am not aware
of any
other standarized solutions relying only on TXT records:

- SPF uses TXT records only as a fallback solution in case 
  where the DNS server does not yet support SPF records,
  the same seems to apply to DKIM RRs. However for SIP
  Outbound, defining new RR types for one single boolean
  flag is not a feasible solution.

- For DNS-SD there is only an expired I-D and there seems
  to be no movement to get it approved as an RFC.

Also this kind of comments would make me doubt if the
solution
based on TXT records is eventually acceptable (even if the
use
of TXT records in SIP Outbound case would be
straightforward):

> A word of caution: use of TXT records will get you an 
> earful from the IAB. The entire area is a huge tangle 
> and you need to be extremely cautious about how you use

> TXT records.

So I would like to get your comments or 'hum' for one
option
or another. I have already prepared a second version of the
I-D with a new way of using SRV records to find the target 
host for the backup flow, based on the comments received 
for this subject. Now the final issue before publishing 
this edition is whether to use NAPTR and TXT records to
indicate support for SIP Outbound.

Regards,

Erkki

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draft-koivusalo-sip-outbound-discovery to rely on NAPTR or TXT records ?
user name
2006-05-23 08:03:21
Erkki.Koivusalonokia.com writes:

 >  + When responding to one NAPTR query the DNS server
typically returns 
 >    not only the NAPTR records but also the related SRV
and address 
 >    records as the NAPTR and SRV RFCs already suggest
doing so. Thus
 >    with a single DNS query the UA would get all the
needed
 >    information.

this is definitely a valuable feature.

 >  + Using different NAPTR service types for SIP
Outbound would make it
 >    straightforward for an operator to divide its
servers to two farms:
 >    Servers with SIP Outbound to be used by clients of
the service
 >    provider and servers without SIP Outbound to be
used by external
 >    UAs. As the external UAs would NOT need SIP
Outbound, when they
 >    resolve the SIP URI of callee in the conventional
(RFC 3263) way,
 >    the result would be those servers without SIP
Outbound support,
 >    which is the desired outcome.

this is mandatory feature.  if txt records cannot be made to
provide
separation of servers to these two classes, then they are
not an
acceptable choice.

 >  - The number of NAPTR service types for SIP would
double (from current
 >    five to ten) and as indicated in RFC 3486, this is
not a scalable
 >    way of using DNS. 

in practice, we can get rid of sips-o.

-- juha

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This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementorscs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sippingietf.org for new developments on the application of
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draft-koivusalo-sip-outbound-discovery to rely on NAPTR or TXT records ?
user name
2006-05-24 06:36:06
On Tuesday 23 May 2006 09:49, Erkki.Koivusalonokia.com
wrote:
...
> So I would like to get your comments or 'hum' for one
option
> or another.

I hum loudly against TXT. The extendibility others have
talked about 
will surely lead to a great mess, IMO.

Maybe it isn't so unreasonable to define new values for
NAPTR service, 
since the old ones are for SIP and the new ones are for
SIP+STUN+more  
service? If it is, then perhaps the idea with DNS based
provisioning of 
outbound SIP service isn't a good idea after all...

/Fredrik

_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://ww
w1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementorscs.columbia.edu for questions on current
sip
Use sippingietf.org for new developments on the application of
sip
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