Home IMAP server

As I'll soon be getting a laptop, I need to move my mail
from Kmail to
an IMAP server that I'll be running locally. I'll read mail
from it in
Kmail both locally and on the laptop while away.

What IMAP servers would the Ubuntu community recommend? What
should I
know about the differences between them before I start?
Thanks.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-
is-what.com/what_is/css.html
http://dot
ancohen.com/howto/root_email.php

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On 12/25/06, Dotan Cohen <dotancohengmail.com> wrote:
> As I'll soon be getting a laptop, I need to move my
mail from Kmail to
> an IMAP server that I'll be running locally. I'll read
mail from it in
> Kmail both locally and on the laptop while away.
>
> What IMAP servers would the Ubuntu community recommend?
What should I
> know about the differences between them before I start?
Thanks.

I would look at Dovecot as it's pretty easy to set up and is
supposed
to be faster and less resource intensive compared to Cyrus,
Courier,
or UW. I haven't used the others to compare.

Todd

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Dotan Cohen wrote:

> As I'll soon be getting a laptop, I need to move my
mail from Kmail to
> an IMAP server that I'll be running locally. I'll read
mail from it in
> Kmail both locally and on the laptop while away.
> 
> What IMAP servers would the Ubuntu community recommend?
What should I
> know about the differences between them before I start?
Thanks.

I've run Postfix/Dovecot under Fedora Core 3 and now
Postfix/Courier
under 6.06.1 Server with a typical ISP account as a
"smart host" relay,
probably for many of the same reasons you're wanting to do
it. ;)

Off the cuff laypersons opinion is that Courier is a little
easier to
set up, but I was using an older version of Postfix under
Core 3. Most
of the minor problems I had getting (secure) remote mail
access up and
running were TLS/SSL issues, and 100% Postfix. Still, I
prefer Postfix
to any of the alternatives. 

Anyway, here's a couple links I found most useful...

http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.06_p6
http://flurdy.com/doc
s/postfix/

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On Mon, 2006-12-25 at 18:40 -0500, Jeffrey F. Bloss wrote:

> Anyway, here's a couple links I found most useful...
> 
> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.06_p6
> http://flurdy.com/doc
s/postfix/
> 

Here is a how-to right from the Ubuntu Documentation for
Edgy

https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/serverg
uide/C/email-services.html

Brad


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On 26/12/06, Jeffrey F. Bloss <jblosstampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I've run Postfix/Dovecot under Fedora Core 3 and now
Postfix/Courier
> under 6.06.1 Server with a typical ISP account as a
"smart host" relay,
> probably for many of the same reasons you're wanting to
do it. ;)
>
> Off the cuff laypersons opinion is that Courier is a
little easier to
> set up, but I was using an older version of Postfix
under Core 3. Most
> of the minor problems I had getting (secure) remote
mail access up and
> running were TLS/SSL issues, and 100% Postfix. Still, I
prefer Postfix
> to any of the alternatives. 
>
> Anyway, here's a couple links I found most useful...
>
> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.06_p6
> http://flurdy.com/doc
s/postfix/
>

Thanks. I've been googling all day and reading up on the
subject. It
appears that I may have trouble using Hebrew (utf-8) folder
names in
Dovecot (or any other IMAP server) because the standard
specifies
utf-7. Can anybody enlighten me on this?

Also, will I absolutely need postfix? I'm not even sure what
it does-
all the documentation seems to assume that one is familiar
with it. I
_think_ that postfix will pull mail from my POP3 server and
deliver it
to the IMAP server. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance.

Dotan Cohen

http://w
hat-is-what.com/what_is/webpage.html
http://dugry.com

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Dotan Cohen wrote:

> On 26/12/06, Jeffrey F. Bloss <jblosstampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>   
>> I've run Postfix/Dovecot under Fedora Core 3 and
now Postfix/Courier
>> under 6.06.1 Server with a typical ISP account as a
"smart host" relay,
>> probably for many of the same reasons you're
wanting to do it. ;)
>>
>> Off the cuff laypersons opinion is that Courier is
a little easier to
>> set up, but I was using an older version of Postfix
under Core 3. Most
>> of the minor problems I had getting (secure) remote
mail access up and
>> running were TLS/SSL issues, and 100% Postfix.
Still, I prefer Postfix
>> to any of the alternatives. 
>>
>> Anyway, here's a couple links I found most
useful...
>>
>> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.06_p6
>> http://flurdy.com/doc
s/postfix/
>>
>>     
>
> Thanks. I've been googling all day and reading up on
the subject. It
> appears that I may have trouble using Hebrew (utf-8)
folder names in
> Dovecot (or any other IMAP server) because the standard
specifies
> utf-7. Can anybody enlighten me on this?
>
> Also, will I absolutely need postfix? I'm not even sure
what it does-
> all the documentation seems to assume that one is
familiar with it. I
> _think_ that postfix will pull mail from my POP3 server
and deliver it
> to the IMAP server. Is this correct?
>  


Hi Dotan,

I don't know about Dovecot but I am using Cyrus-IMAP and I
just tested
the creation of a Hebrew folder name with no problem.

As for the need for Postfix or any other SMTP server. 
Postfix is used
to move email between servers while the IMAP server is used
to access
your email from your client (POP3 is another way to access
your email).

If I remember correctly, Postfix will not grab your POP3
email from your
ISP.  You will need to use another program (fetchmail).
Fetchmail will
collect the mail from the ISP's POP3 or IMAP server and
deliver it to
your SMTP server which in turn will deliver it to your IMAP
server.


Avi


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Dotan Cohen wrote:

> Also, will I absolutely need postfix? I'm not even sure
what it does-
> all the documentation seems to assume that one is
familiar with it. I
> _think_ that postfix will pull mail from my POP3 server
and deliver it
> to the IMAP server. Is this correct?

No, for that you'll probably want something like fetchmail.


You'll need some sort of mail transport agent (MTA). That's
what routes
mail around your network, forwards outgoing mail to other
servers, and
directs incoming mail into the right "slot".
That's the function of an
SMTP server, and Postfix is just one of the
"standards". 

You'll also want to be able to collect and/or read your
mail, so you
need something sitting there waiting for you to log in and
do that.
This is the IMAP/POP3 part. Dovecot and Courier are just two
of the
choices. Again, just a couple of "ol' reliables". 

On top of that you'll need a way to reach out to external
email servers
and collect mail from there, incorporating it into your
"home" server.
That's fetchmail's job. It logs into your POP account at
Gmail and
moves everything from there to your server.

Confused yet? 

On top of all *that*, there's some behind the scenes stuff
that needs to
be set up like OpenSSL and SASL for security. Not to mention
things like
Procmail, Bogofilter or Spamassassin, ClamAV, a
"milter", yadda, yadda,
yadda... for filtering and managing the junk if you're
inclined to do
that on the server.

This is why it might be wise to limit your choices to
"standard" stuff,
and trust one of the "howto" links that were
posted. At least for the
first go around, you can get creative later. I understand
Courier has
modules for everything under the kitchen sink for instance,
but there's
going to be so much more information and assistance out
there for
Postfix that all you really want from Courier is the
IMAP/POP module.
Or use Dovecot. And for fetching mail from other servers
there's no
reason at all to look beyond Fetchmail.

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Hi,

trying to give you an overview. I don't mean to insult you
but if you  
don't understand it it's

a) Probably not your fault - it's not the easiest topic
b) better to read some documentation ahead because if you
have an  
open relay (but it works for you) spammers will detect it
within 48h  
and abuse your server. (I had that case once and send over
20000  
Mails within 30 minutes out to the world)

Am 26.12.2006 um 22:47 schrieb Dotan Cohen:

> Also, will I absolutely need postfix? I'm not even sure
what it does-
> all the documentation seems to assume that one is
familiar with it. I
> _think_ that postfix will pull mail from my POP3 server
and deliver it
> to the IMAP server. Is this correct?

What postfix (or any other MTA - Mail Transport Agent) is
for:

postfix is a server that will listen on port 25 for incoming
mail.

That means:

If (and only if) you own a domain - like dotancohen.com and
want to  
administrate your own email service you need to setup a smtp
server  
(such as postfix) that will listen on port 25 (this is
assigned by  
IANA - someone correct me please with the acronyms i tend to
horribly  
mix them up).

It is important that it indeed is port 25 because all other 

mailservers on the net out there expect your sever to accept
 
connection on that port. (Like your browser expects a
webserver to  
listen on port 80)

My guess is you won't need it because:

  * You said you only want to pull mail (actively receive
mail with  
fetchmail or any other tool that you choose)
  * You still want to use your providers outgoint mail
server (which  
is what you would need postfix for, think of it as
thunderbird - or  
any other mail client being a mail server that only knows
about one  
other server and submits the mail to it so that this server
will take  
care of the mail)
  * A simple mail system doesn't exist, mail delivery on the
net is  
by definition complicated. IMHO the lowest level of
complexity that  
is available in a mail system is "complex". Going
only upwards with  
complexity.

(this is subjective):
Reasons for this are: If you need to debug (as in debug if
the  
configuration fits your needs) it you will have to work with
 
asynchronous stuff (and I do mean asynchronous, I had times
when I  
used gmail, gmx and several other outside accounts for
testing where  
half of them would nearly immediately - smaller than a
minute - bring  
in the mail and the other half needed up to 2 hours).

If you set up your mail server you will want to have a few
anti spam  
options which just bring in more components that will make
the  
communication even more asynchronous.

All this said:
If you want to set up your own mail server just get yourself
enough  
time (the first server I set up was about a week of time
invested  
before it worked the way I wanted) and also get a good book
that  
specifically handles the mailserver you are using. It's not 

impossible  still all the administrators out there are mere
mortals  
(most of them at least) but you need to be aware that you
will need  
time for it. Also setting it up once isn't all there is to
it you  
will find yourself always uncomfortable with the anti spam
setup and  
constantly tweak the toolchain you use to avoid spam.

hth
martin

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Thanks. I do in fact have the domain dotancohen.com and do
use it for
email. It is not hosted on my home machine, rather on a
'real'
webserver thousands of kilometers away. I currently pull
mail from
there via POP3 and send mail from there via SMTP, both in
Kmail.

I'd like to still have the mail stored on my local home
machine, but
I'd also like to access it via the laptop while I'm away.
That leaves
me the options of:
1) Pulling the email down from the server via POP3 and
leaving a copy
on the server in the laptop.
2) Syncing the laptop and the home machine when I get home-
all email
downloaded to one will be transfered to the other. Also, any
email
erased from one will be erased from the other.
3) Using an IMAP server that I access via both the home
machine and the laptop.

Assuming that I go with the IMAP server on my home machine,
I'd need:
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

1) A static IP (which I have)
2) The machine must always be turned on (which it is)
3) Fetchmail, which would pull the email from the server and
store it.
Then the IMAP server (dovecot for example) would make the
mail
available to both Kmail running locally, and Kmail on the
laptop.
4) I'd continue sending email via SMTP on the server. That
means that
sent mail will only be available on the machine that it was
sent from.
5) If I continue using bogofilter in Kmail, it will only
filter the
mail on that machine. Or, is there a way to have bogofilter
in the
IMAP server itself? That way it will learn from when I tag
ham/spam on
both machines.

Thanks. Sorry for the newbie questions. Most of what I've
needed to
know I got from STFW but there are these questions that I
can't answer
myself.

Dotan Cohen

http://lyricslist
.com/lyrics/lyrics/140/425/red_hot_chili_peppers/the_red_hot
_chili_peppers.php
http://wh
at-is-what.com/what_is/google.html

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Sorry to come in late here. I have a similar external
address to handle my
email.

However I leave my mail on the server and download it to
which ever machine
I want it on. If I need it on both machines I copy it down.


Just a thought



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Dotan Cohen wrote:

<snippage>

> Assuming that I go with the IMAP server on my home
machine, I'd need:
> (please correct me if I'm wrong)
> 
> 1) A static IP (which I have)

This isn't absolutely necessary. The typical solution for
dynamic IP
addresses is to use an automatic DDNS redirect service like
Yi.org or
DynDNS.com. Even with a static IP and your own domain, you
might want
to consider a free redirect unless you can reconfigure your
domain MX
to use your home server directly. Something you might not
want to do
for a number of reasons. 

Either way there's some other minor considerations that make
having a
"name" assigned to your home mail server
preferable to accessing it by
IP. Most of them have to do with incoming mail and SPAM/RBL
stuff which
may or may not be an issue depending on whether or not your
mail server
has any public exposure.

> 2) The machine must always be turned on (which it is)
> 3) Fetchmail, which would pull the email from the
server and store it.
> Then the IMAP server (dovecot for example) would make
the mail
> available to both Kmail running locally, and Kmail on
the laptop.

I would *strongly* urge you to include an SMTP server in the
configuration. It's possible to have Fetchmail do local mail
delivery
with the -mda (?) switch, but this raises certain security
and
functionality issues you might want to research.

Opinions vary on this of course. I'd suggest some Google
time and
searches on things like 'fetchmail without SMTP' and
'fetchmail IMAP
support'. I think you'll come away with the opinion that
it's generally
better to have the proper tool for the proper job. ;)

> 4) I'd continue sending email via SMTP on the server.
That means that
> sent mail will only be available on the machine that it
was sent from.

Here again I would probably want to use the local mail
server for
outgoing delivery. It keeps things "centralized"
and under your control.
Configuring most SMTP servers to relay mail through a
"smart host" like
your domain account's mail server is a snap compared to
everything
else. And you can still send directly through your
domain/Gmail
accounts from KMail if you want, using different profiles.
KMail does
allow multiple send profiles, right? It's been a while....

> 5) If I continue using bogofilter in Kmail, it will
only filter the
> mail on that machine. Or, is there a way to have
bogofilter in the
> IMAP server itself? That way it will learn from when I
tag ham/spam on
> both machines.

Yup, this is why you'll probably want to run a full blown
mail
server.  Setting up
the extra goodies will be a lot less cumbersome
once you understand how it all works.
Bogofilter/Spamassassin and
things like ClamAV can be configured to observe ALL your
incoming and
outgoing mail centrally. One setup to configure and
maintain, rather
than trying to "sync" spam databases and what not
between your laptop
and any permanent home workstations you might have.

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On 27/12/06, Jeffrey F. Bloss <jblosstampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
> <snippage>
>
> > Assuming that I go with the IMAP server on my home
machine, I'd need:
> > (please correct me if I'm wrong)
> >
> > 1) A static IP (which I have)
>
> This isn't absolutely necessary. The typical solution
for dynamic IP
> addresses is to use an automatic DDNS redirect service
like Yi.org or
> DynDNS.com. Even with a static IP and your own domain,
you might want
> to consider a free redirect unless you can reconfigure
your domain MX
> to use your home server directly. Something you might
not want to do
> for a number of reasons.

I'd use the static IP for connecting the laptop to the home
machine
only. Email addressed to me will wind up in myu POP3 box on
the
webserver, and from there I'd pull it down.

> Either way there's some other minor considerations that
make having a
> "name" assigned to your home mail server
preferable to accessing it by
> IP. Most of them have to do with incoming mail and
SPAM/RBL stuff which
> may or may not be an issue depending on whether or not
your mail server
> has any public exposure.

No name will be assigned to my home machine, and as far as
those
sending/receiving mail from me, there will be no difference
at all.
The MX records will still point at the webserver and the
mail will
still come from there.

> > 2) The machine must always be turned on (which it
is)
> > 3) Fetchmail, which would pull the email from the
server and store it.
> > Then the IMAP server (dovecot for example) would
make the mail
> > available to both Kmail running locally, and Kmail
on the laptop.
>
> I would *strongly* urge you to include an SMTP server
in the
> configuration. It's possible to have Fetchmail do local
mail delivery
> with the -mda (?) switch, but this raises certain
security and
> functionality issues you might want to research.

Er, I thought that was the whole idea of Fetchmail! So what
you are
saying is that Fetchmail will get the mail from the server,
then and
SMTP server (name of this program?) will devliver it to the
IMAP
server (dovecat), which will serve to multiple Kmail
instances.

> Opinions vary on this of course. I'd suggest some
Google time and
> searches on things like 'fetchmail without SMTP' and
'fetchmail IMAP
> support'. I think you'll come away with the opinion
that it's generally
> better to have the proper tool for the proper job. ;)

Yes, lots of time on google has been invested in this!

> > 4) I'd continue sending email via SMTP on the
server. That means that
> > sent mail will only be available on the machine
that it was sent from.
>
> Here again I would probably want to use the local mail
server for
> outgoing delivery. It keeps things
"centralized" and under your control.
> Configuring most SMTP servers to relay mail through a
"smart host" like
> your domain account's mail server is a snap compared to
everything
> else. And you can still send directly through your
domain/Gmail
> accounts from KMail if you want, using different
profiles. KMail does
> allow multiple send profiles, right? It's been a
while....

I'll look into that, but I'd like to know what it the
advantage of
adding yet _another_ link to the chain. The outgoing mail
remains
simple. Why make it complicated as well?

> > 5) If I continue using bogofilter in Kmail, it
will only filter the
> > mail on that machine. Or, is there a way to have
bogofilter in the
> > IMAP server itself? That way it will learn from
when I tag ham/spam on
> > both machines.
>
> Yup, this is why you'll probably want to run a full
blown mail
> server.  Setting up
the extra goodies will be a lot less cumbersome
> once you understand how it all works.
Bogofilter/Spamassassin and
> things like ClamAV can be configured to observe ALL
your incoming and
> outgoing mail centrally. One setup to configure and
maintain, rather
> than trying to "sync" spam databases and what
not between your laptop
> and any permanent home workstations you might have.

Outgoing mail I have no reason to process, but this might be
great for
incomming mail.

Dotan Cohen

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http://what-is-what.com/

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Hi,

there is another option (althoug I wouldn't recommend it)
you could  
set up you kmail not to delete the messages from the pop
server (not  
working with kmail but almost every program I worked with
had this  
option - even outlook express).


Am 27.12.2006 um 18:15 schrieb Dotan Cohen:

> I'd like to still have the mail stored on my local home
machine, but
> I'd also like to access it via the laptop while I'm
away. That leaves
> me the options of:
> 1) Pulling the email down from the server via POP3 and
leaving a copy
> on the server in the laptop.
> 2) Syncing the laptop and the home machine when I get
home- all email
> downloaded to one will be transfered to the other.
Also, any email
> erased from one will be erased from the other.

No need to sync (in the conventional way of a "Sync
Now" button) the  
idea behind imap is that you have all mail stored remotely
on the  
server. kmail should be able to get the index of messages
that are  
available upon connect and automagically only show you the
messages  
that are actually there.

> 3) Using an IMAP server that I access via both the home
machine and  
> the laptop.

exactly

> Assuming that I go with the IMAP server on my home
machine, I'd need:
> (please correct me if I'm wrong)
>
> 1) A static IP (which I have)
> 2) The machine must always be turned on (which it is)

True, I'd still use dyndns or a similiar service so that you
can  
access you server with a name rather than an ip. also if
your  
provider at some time thinks he has to change your IP dyndns
will  
catch up and you will still have access.

> 3) Fetchmail, which would pull the email from the
server and store it.
> Then the IMAP server (dovecot for example) would make
the mail
> available to both Kmail running locally, and Kmail on
the laptop.
> 4) I'd continue sending email via SMTP on the server.
That means that
> sent mail will only be available on the machine that it
was sent from.

No 

Just set up your mail clients (on both machines) to use the
same  
"Sent Items" Folder on the same server (which
would be your imap server)

> 5) If I continue using bogofilter in Kmail, it will
only filter the
> mail on that machine. Or, is there a way to have
bogofilter in the
> IMAP server itself? That way it will learn from when I
tag ham/spam on
> both machines.

hmm that sounds like a local install of kmail keeps it's own
 
dictionairy of spam/nospam messages.

A solution would be to use the same spam folder and
occasionally feed  
the messages from that folder to your mail client. That way
the  
"knowledge" of your spam filter would be (to some
extent) on the same  
level.

> Thanks. Sorry for the newbie questions. Most of what
I've needed to
> know I got from STFW but there are these questions that
I can't answer
> myself.

No problem, i found the largest problem with STFW is to know
the  
right vocabulary to search for (which is where I regularly
bail out  
because english is not my mother tongue and therefore I
don't know  
how to correctly translate the words to search for - to many
acronyms  
and specialized phrases in each language on the planet - we
should  
all just start talking binary)

Hope you can use some of those ideas
Martin



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On 28/12/06, Martin Marcher <martin.marcheropenforce.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there is another option (althoug I wouldn't recommend
it) you could
> set up you kmail not to delete the messages from the
pop server (not
> working with kmail but almost every program I worked
with had this
> option - even outlook express).

I was thinking about that, but then I'd have to maintain two
seperate,
redundant email systems (filing twice, adding contacts
twice, managing
filters twice).

> > I'd like to still have the mail stored on my local
home machine, but
> > I'd also like to access it via the laptop while
I'm away. That leaves
> > me the options of:
> > 1) Pulling the email down from the server via POP3
and leaving a copy
> > on the server in the laptop.
> > 2) Syncing the laptop and the home machine when I
get home- all email
> > downloaded to one will be transfered to the other.
Also, any email
> > erased from one will be erased from the other.
>
> No need to sync (in the conventional way of a
"Sync Now" button) the
> idea behind imap is that you have all mail stored
remotely on the
> server. kmail should be able to get the index of
messages that are
> available upon connect and automagically only show you
the messages
> that are actually there.

Yes, I understand that. Actually, I'd prefer a Sync Now
button! Maybe
I should look into KitchenSync to see if it wil provide
this.

> > 3) Fetchmail, which would pull the email from the
server and store it.
> > Then the IMAP server (dovecot for example) would
make the mail
> > available to both Kmail running locally, and Kmail
on the laptop.
> > 4) I'd continue sending email via SMTP on the
server. That means that
> > sent mail will only be available on the machine
that it was sent from.
>
> No 
>
> Just set up your mail clients (on both machines) to use
the same
> "Sent Items" Folder on the same server (which
would be your imap server)

Ah, I did not realize that sent mail would be reported back
to the
IMAP server. Very nice.

> > 5) If I continue using bogofilter in Kmail, it
will only filter the
> > mail on that machine. Or, is there a way to have
bogofilter in the
> > IMAP server itself? That way it will learn from
when I tag ham/spam on
> > both machines.
>
> hmm that sounds like a local install of kmail keeps
it's own
> dictionairy of spam/nospam messages.
>
> A solution would be to use the same spam folder and
occasionally feed
> the messages from that folder to your mail client. That
way the
> "knowledge" of your spam filter would be (to
some extent) on the same
> level.

bogofilter doesn't store the whole spam message. When an
email is
marked as spam/ham it does analyze it, but the whole message
may then
be deleted.

> > Thanks. Sorry for the newbie questions. Most of
what I've needed to
> > know I got from STFW but there are these questions
that I can't answer
> > myself.
>
> No problem, i found the largest problem with STFW is to
know the
> right vocabulary to search for (which is where I
regularly bail out
> because english is not my mother tongue and therefore I
don't know
> how to correctly translate the words to search for - to
many acronyms
> and specialized phrases in each language on the planet
- we should
> all just start talking binary)

Yes, my problem exacty. I didn't even know to start googling
postfix
unti lI was it mentioned. And English terminology is so
inconsistent-
why can't everyone just speak Hebrew?!? 

Dotan Cohen

http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/360/mot
ley_crue.php
http://essentiali
nux.com/source.php

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Dotan Cohen spake thusly on 12/25/2006 01:52 PM:
> As I'll soon be getting a laptop, I need to move my
mail from Kmail to
> an IMAP server that I'll be running locally. I'll read
mail from it in
> Kmail both locally and on the laptop while away.
> 
> What IMAP servers would the Ubuntu community recommend?
What should I
> know about the differences between them before I start?
Thanks.
> 

I only have one computer but I run multiple operating
systems and wanted 
IMAP because of it.  After much investigation (including all
the 
software mentioned in this thread) I became rather
overwhelmed.  There 
is a *lot* of configuration involved.

My solution? I switched to a provider that offers IMAP and
let them do 
the work.  There are
a few out there that even do it for free.

But since I have my own domain and website, I just switched
hosting 
providers.



-- 
	Scott
http://angrykeyboarder.com

© 2006 angrykeyboarder™ & Elmer Fudd. All Wights
Wesewved


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Hi,

On 12/27/06, Dotan Cohen <dotancohengmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> 5) If I continue using bogofilter in Kmail, it will
only filter the
> mail on that machine. Or, is there a way to have
bogofilter in the
> IMAP server itself? That way it will learn from when I
tag ham/spam on
> both machines.

Yes, you'd want bogofilter to run on the same machine as
your IMAP
server so that no matter what machine you access your mail
from, mail
gets passed through bogofilter. I've got a server set up
like this,
and the process is that postfix receives the mail and hands
it off to
procmail, which sends it through bogofilter and then
delivers it to
the local mailboxes. All training can be done via the mail
client, by
dragging and dropping messages to the appropriate folder.

I set up bogofilter and folders like this:

a .Junk folder, where mail identified as spam goes.

a .MakeJunk folder, where misclassified ham goes (bogofilter
thinks
it's ham but it's really spam)

a .MakeGood folder, where misclassified spam goes
(bogofilter thinks
it's spam but it's really ham)

Since bogofilter uses tristate classification now, I have
approached
the unsure messages in one of two ways, either

1. having bogofilter put ???UNSURE??? in the subject line so
I'll know
it's unsure, or

2. creating an .Unsure folder where procmail can put those
messages.

I then run scripts via cron on the server that process mail
in
.MakeJunk, .MakeGood, and .Unsure. These basically run every
couple of
hours and run the mails through bogofilter with the
appropriate
switches for training. I only keep one week worth of spam in
my Junk
folder, anything older than 7 days gets moved out of my
maildir and to
another folder outside of my mail root. I tar.gz that
directory every
week or so to save space.

Since the vast majority of my unsures are actually spam, I
have a
script that automatically classifies those mails older than
7 days as
junk and move them to my spam archive.

Let me know if you need details on my server setup, it's on
Ubuntu, too.

Todd

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Dotan Cohen wrote:

> > This isn't absolutely necessary. The typical
solution for dynamic IP
> > addresses is to use an automatic DDNS redirect
service like Yi.org
> > or DynDNS.com. Even with a static IP and your own
domain, you might
> > want to consider a free redirect unless you can
reconfigure your
> > domain MX to use your home server directly.
Something you might not
> > want to do for a number of reasons.
> 
> I'd use the static IP for connecting the laptop to the
home machine
> only. Email addressed to me will wind up in myu POP3
box on the
> webserver, and from there I'd pull it down.

Just a generality here, but if you decide to run your own
server at
all the closer you can get your home server to a
"real" mail server the
better. If you take half measures you're likely to find that
it's
unusable or unreliable from some locations. That's just a
fact of life
when you're wading around in the world of "anti spam
measures" and big
business. :(

Fair warning is all. Things always looks like they should
work fine
on paper until you find out some mail server in Podunk
thinks it's a
bright idea to silently drop mail with on odd Received:
header or
something. You may get a "bare bones" setup to
fill your specific needs
with no glitches, you may not. Can't predict the future. ;)

> > Either way there's some other minor considerations
that make having
> > a "name" assigned to your home mail
server preferable to accessing
> > it by IP. Most of them have to do with incoming
mail and SPAM/RBL
> > stuff which may or may not be an issue depending
on whether or not
> > your mail server has any public exposure.
> 
> No name will be assigned to my home machine, and as far
as those
> sending/receiving mail from me, there will be no
difference at all.
> The MX records will still point at the webserver and
the mail will
> still come from there.

I wouldn't want my home mail server to be my primary mail
server
either, but with a static IP and the ability to use your web
hosting
server as a backup MX it's certainly is a viable option. And
it would
truly make any issues that come up resolvable by virtue of
you being
"the man". ;)

> 
> > > 2) The machine must always be turned on
(which it is)
> > > 3) Fetchmail, which would pull the email from
the server and
> > > store it. Then the IMAP server (dovecot for
example) would make
> > > the mail available to both Kmail running
locally, and Kmail on
> > > the laptop.
> >
> > I would *strongly* urge you to include an SMTP
server in the
> > configuration. It's possible to have Fetchmail do
local mail
> > delivery with the -mda (?) switch, but this raises
certain security
> > and functionality issues you might want to
research.
> 
> Er, I thought that was the whole idea of Fetchmail! So
what you are
> saying is that Fetchmail will get the mail from the
server, then and
> SMTP server (name of this program?) will devliver it to
the IMAP
> server (dovecat), which will serve to multiple Kmail
instances.

Sort of. Fetchmail collects messages and hands them off to
your MTA
(Postfix, Exim, sendmail, whatever), The MTA or "SMTP
server" routes
mail to a local mail spool of some sort, possibly by way of
another
application or two if you want any internal spam/virus
processing.
There it sits in the mail spool until your IMAP/POP/Whatever
server
goes looking for it at your request. In other words, there's
no direct
"hand off" between your SMTP server and your IMAP
server, nor should
there be.

Again, fetchmail *can* be configured to insert mail directly
into a
local mail spool, or even hand off directly to something
like procmail
which does a fine job of that (and is the utility that's
most commonly
used to link in your virus/spam processing). But such a
setup is
definable as "flaky and crippled" by a lot of
people, myself included.
Experience tells us that a little extra work now will
prevent headaches
later. It sounds like an awful lot to go through just to do
something
as simple as read mail, but it's all worth it when you're
sitting in an
air terminal in Alaska "doing business" while the
rest of the peeps are
banging their heads against the wall trying to figure out
how to get
that 5 meg PDF to the client before the competition at
"Joe's Widgets"
does. 

> 
> > Opinions vary on this of course. I'd suggest some
Google time and
> > searches on things like 'fetchmail without SMTP'
and 'fetchmail IMAP
> > support'. I think you'll come away with the
opinion that it's
> > generally better to have the proper tool for the
proper job. ;)
> 
> Yes, lots of time on google has been invested in this!

At some point you're probably going to give up Googling and
just do
it. 
The good news is you'll still have KMail configured to suck
mail
directly from various servers so if it doesn't work you can
burn it
down and rebuild it with little or no serious injury.

> > > 4) I'd continue sending email via SMTP on the
server. That means
> > > that sent mail will only be available on the
machine that it was
> > > sent from.
> >
> > Here again I would probably want to use the local
mail server for
> > outgoing delivery. It keeps things
"centralized" and under your
> > control. Configuring most SMTP servers to relay
mail through a
> > "smart host" like your domain account's
mail server is a snap
> > compared to everything else. And you can still
send directly
> > through your domain/Gmail accounts from KMail if
you want, using
> > different profiles. KMail does allow multiple send
profiles, right?
> > It's been a while....
> 
> I'll look into that, but I'd like to know what it the
advantage of
> adding yet _another_ link to the chain. The outgoing
mail remains
> simple. Why make it complicated as well?

*shrug*

Why do you want to mess with incoming mail? The same logic
you're
following to justify setting up a centralized collection
point applies
to outgoing mail. If you want "simple" install XP
and Outlook Express
everywhere, and just use the servers you're using now. 

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On 12/28/06, Jeffrey F. Bloss <jblosstampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't want my home mail server to be my primary
mail server
> either

Just curious: why not? Reliability?

-- 
  Colin Brace
  Amsterdam

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Colin Brace wrote:

> On 12/28/06, Jeffrey F. Bloss <jblosstampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> > I wouldn't want my home mail server to be my
primary mail server
> > either
> 
> Just curious: why not? Reliability?


Mostly, but not from the point of view of the machine
itself. One can
build a rock solid mail server around an old box, I just
don't feel the
support infrastructure is there in a home user scenario. You
could opt
for a business class feed, hell you could run fiber to your
living room
and bolt a rack of line scrubbing whatnots and hot swapable
redundant
dodads to the wall beside your big screen, but then you're
not really
running a "home server" any more.

Even with a good quality UPS and an end user feed that's
been solid for
over a year, I feel a little timid about using my "home
owner" setup
full time. If the power goes out for more than about 15
minutes or a
neighbor decides it's a good idea to run his lawn mower into
the switch
box that sits in his front yard I'm sunk. And I'd have
nobody to
comaplin to. ;) At least with a "real" server I
can zip over to the
library and still do my thing. ;)

-- 
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]--
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Jeffrey F. Bloss wrote:

> Colin Brace wrote:
>
>   
>> On 12/28/06, Jeffrey F. Bloss <jblosstampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I wouldn't want my home mail server to be my
primary mail server
>>> either
>>>       
>> Just curious: why not? Reliability?
>>     
> Even with a good quality UPS and an end user feed
that's been solid for
> over a year, I feel a little timid about using my
"home owner" setup
> full time. If the power goes out for more than about 15
minutes or a
> neighbor decides it's a good idea to run his lawn mower
into the switch
> box that sits in his front yard I'm sunk. And I'd have
nobody to
> comaplin to. ;) At least with a "real" server
I can zip over to the
> library and still do my thing.
>   
Actually you are not sunk unless you need your email
urgently.  Since a 
legit mail server will retry delivery up to 5 days, the only
thing you 
are going to miss is spam.  After all that is how
greylisting works.

Avi

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