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Thread: Is there any ongoing work on HTTP?




Is there any ongoing work on HTTP?
user name
2006-05-09 14:33:58
Hello everyone,

The W3 protocols page states:

"""Now that both HTTP extensions and
HTTP/1.1 are stable specifications,
W3C has closed the HTTP Activity. The Activity has achieved
its goals of
creating a successful standard that addresses the weaknesses
of earlier
HTTP versions."""

My question is then simple? Is there any plan to update HTTP
after almost
6 years its last specification has been issued?

As naive as it may sound, the last few years have shown that
HTTP was not
alsways either understood or clear enough on some topics. To
name a few:

* The lack of clear separation between an HTTP status code
and the header
sent along the response
* The endless issue about the idempotency or not of HTTP
methods
* The real usability of pipelinig (today's networks are not
onmes of 10
years ago)
* The usability of 100-Continue
* Is the Accept header efficient

I believe there are more issues of course.

Now some might say these are minor problems and do not
require a new WG
process and this is certainly true (I'm a simple hacker
with little
knowledge of how the W3 internally works). However I felt
intrigued to
know if there were even "corridor discussions"
on that matter 

Intrigued because HTTP has been becoming more and more
heavily used
(internet connections are getting cheaper, globalization of
companies with
offices all around the World, the recent success of REST and
technologies
such as Ajax) and it sounds like a good time to me clarify
blurry topics.

Anyway, just to know if there was any life around HTTP these
days.

Regards,
- Sylvain
http://www.defuze.org

Is there any ongoing work on HTTP?
user name
2006-05-09 16:30:56
Hi Sylvian,

There are... rumblings. It would probably be best to ask
this on the  
HTTP mailing list;
   htt
p://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/


On 2006/05/09, at 7:33 AM, Sylvain Hellegouarch wrote:

>
> Hello everyone,
>
> The W3 protocols page states:
>
> """Now that both HTTP extensions and
HTTP/1.1 are stable  
> specifications,
> W3C has closed the HTTP Activity. The Activity has
achieved its  
> goals of
> creating a successful standard that addresses the
weaknesses of  
> earlier
> HTTP versions."""
>
> My question is then simple? Is there any plan to update
HTTP after  
> almost
> 6 years its last specification has been issued?
>
> As naive as it may sound, the last few years have shown
that HTTP  
> was not
> alsways either understood or clear enough on some
topics. To name a  
> few:
>
> * The lack of clear separation between an HTTP status
code and the  
> header
> sent along the response
> * The endless issue about the idempotency or not of
HTTP methods
> * The real usability of pipelinig (today's networks
are not onmes  
> of 10
> years ago)
> * The usability of 100-Continue
> * Is the Accept header efficient
>
> I believe there are more issues of course.
>
> Now some might say these are minor problems and do not
require a  
> new WG
> process and this is certainly true (I'm a simple
hacker with little
> knowledge of how the W3 internally works). However I
felt intrigued to
> know if there were even "corridor
discussions" on that matter 
>
> Intrigued because HTTP has been becoming more and more
heavily used
> (internet connections are getting cheaper,
globalization of  
> companies with
> offices all around the World, the recent success of
REST and  
> technologies
> such as Ajax) and it sounds like a good time to me
clarify blurry  
> topics.
>
> Anyway, just to know if there was any life around HTTP
these days.
>
> Regards,
> - Sylvain
> http://www.defuze.org
>
>


--
Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/


Is there any ongoing work on HTTP?
user name
2006-05-09 19:24:16
Mqrk,

> There are... rumblings. It would probably be best to
ask this on the
> HTTP mailing list;
>    htt
p://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/
>

Thanks for the hint. I will forward the message over there.

- Sylvain

Is there any ongoing work on HTTP?
user name
2006-05-09 16:28:04

Hello,


There is one more big deficiency IMHO:


A POST response does not include the code page of the response.

i.e. The code page of response is depended on one of the following settings


1) Browser setting

2) Char set settings in header

3) Char set settings in Meta tag

4) %Charset in DTD

5) Accept-Charset in Form tag.


For intermediate proxies interpreting the information, this is very very difficult. This is going to be much more an issue with internationalization... Even if a proxy would be maintaining the state across a request4; the browser setting is the one which is the most difficult to figure out...

I can see one intermediate solution, and that is to write some javascript which queries the browser for that information, and builds a x- header with that in it. But I think the better solution would be a standardized method which all browsers have to support...


This one seems to be between the HTTP and HTML spec, and kinda fell between the cracks?;


Maurice


>>&gt; "Sylvain Hellegouarch" <shdefuze.org> 05/09/06 8:33 AM >>&gt;

Hello everyone&#44;

The W3 protocols page states:

&quot;""Now that both HTTP extensions and HTTP/1.1 are stable specifications,
W3C has closed the HTTP Activity. The Activity has achieved its goals of
creating a successful standard that addresses the weaknesses of earlier
HTTP versions.&quot;""

My question is then simple?; Is there any plan to update HTTP after almost
6 years its last specification has been issued?;

As naive as it may sound, the last few years have shown that HTTP was not
alsways either understood or clear enough on some topics. To name a few:

*; The lack of clear separation between an HTTP status code and the header
sent along the response
&#42; The endless issue about the idempotency or not of HTTP methods
&#42; The real usability of pipelinig (today 's networks are not onmes of 10
years ago)
&#42; The usability of 100-Continue
* Is the Accept header efficient

I believe there are more issues of course.

Now some might say these are minor problems and do not require a new WG
process and this is certainly true (I';m a simple hacker with little
knowledge of how the W3 internally works). However I felt intrigued to
know if there were even "corridor discussions" on that matter :)

Intrigued because HTTP has been becoming more and more heavily used
(internet connections are getting cheaper4; globalization of companies with
offices all around the World, the recent success of REST and technologies
such as Ajax) and it sounds like a good time to me clarify blurry topics.

Anyway, just to know if there was any life around HTTP these days.

Regards,
- Sylvain
http://www.defuze.o rg

Is there any ongoing work on HTTP?
user name
2006-05-10 19:49:01
Maurice,

I personally have never had a problem with that. ; Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but can't one just reference the HTTP_REFERER flag (in PHP at least)?

Or for that matter, some websites might not require the code page of the response and would rather blindly process the form, so forcing it into standards might add unnecessary bulk..

Regards,

-Harry Maugans
 www.harrymaugans.com


On 5/9/06, Maurice Smulders <novell.com"> msmuldersnovell.com> wrote:

Hello,


There is one more big deficiency IMHO:


A POST response does not include the code page of the response.

i.e. The code page of response is depended on one of the following settings


1) Browser setting

2) Char set settings in header

3) Char set settings in Meta tag

4) %Charset in DTD

5) Accept-Charset in Form tag.


For intermediate proxies interpreting the information, this is very very difficult. This is going to be much more an issue with internationalization... Even if a proxy would be maintaining the state across a request, the browser setting is the one which is the most difficult to figure out...

I can see one intermediate solution, and that is to write some javascript which queries the browser for that information, and builds a x- header with that in it. But I think the better solution would be a standardized method which all browsers have to support....


This one seems to be between the HTTP and HTML spec, and kinda fell between the cracks?


Maurice


>>&gt; "Sylvain Hellegouarch" <defuze.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">shdefuze.org> 05/09/06 8:33 AM >>&gt;



Hello everyone,

The W3 protocols page states:

&quot;""Now that both HTTP extensions and HTTP/1.1 are stable specifications,
W3C has closed the HTTP Activity. The Activity has achieved its goals of
creating a successful standard that addresses the weaknesses of earlier
HTTP versions.&quot;""

My question is then simple? Is there any plan to update HTTP after almost
6 years its last specification has been issued?

As naive as it may sound, the last few years have shown that HTTP was not
alsways either understood or clear enough on some topics. To name a few:

* The lack of clear separation between an HTTP status code and the header
sent along the response
* The endless issue about the idempotency or not of HTTP methods
* The real usability of pipelinig (today's networks are not onmes of 10
years ago)
* The usability of 100-Continue
* Is the Accept header efficient

I believe there are more issues of course.

Now some might say these are minor problems and do not require a new WG
process and this is certainly true (I'm a simple hacker with little
knowledge of how the W3 internally works). However I felt intrigued to
know if there were even "corridor discussions" on that matter

Intrigued because HTTP has been becoming more and more heavily used
(internet connections are getting cheaper, globalization of companies with
offices all around the World, the recent success of REST and technologies
such as Ajax) and it sounds like a good time to me clarify blurry topics.

Anyway, just to know if there was any life around HTTP these days.

Regards,
- Sylvain
http://www.defuze.org




--
-Harry Maugans
404-213-8616
Penguin Studios, Inc.
www.penguinstudios.com
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