[13:02] <Dracos> ###################### MEETING BEGINS
######################
[13:02] * Dracos changes topic to 'Xaraya Development
meeting in progress'
[13:03] <Dracos> ok, let's have a roll call
[13:03] <random> here
[13:04] * Dracos pokes everyone
[13:06] <Dracos> I hope people speak up eventually
[13:06] <Dracos> today's agenda is getting 1.1.4
released
[13:07] <Dracos> has anyone tested the prerelease
build?
[13:07] <johnny> only thing to say for that is getting
jason to comment
on the fix right?
[13:07] <johnny> somebody said they did right?
[13:07] <Dracos> I think matias said he did
[13:08] <Dracos> the only oustanding issue I know of
is the url parsing
issue under php5
[13:08] <johnny> not under php5 in general
[13:08] <johnny> remember?
[13:08] <Dracos> right, early php5 releases
[13:08] <johnny> my opinion is that php between 5.0.0
and 5.1.0 sucks
[13:08] <johnny> and is hard to support
[13:09] <Dracos> I'd like to get this resolved, even
without word from
jason, if need be
[13:09] <random> for waht it's worth 2x requires
minimum 5.2.0
[13:09] <Dracos> I have no issue with advising 1x
users to upgrade
beyond php 5..1.0
[13:10] <johnny> but who has a 5.1.x ?
[13:10] <Dracos> apparent;y jojo does
[13:10] <johnny> i mean to make sure it is fixed
between 5.1.x and 5.2.x
[13:10] <Dracos> she can't be the only one
[13:10] <Dracos> I gather from her emails that she
tested multiple fixes
[13:11] <johnny> but didn't post them
[13:12] <johnny> Jo, let us know your fixes when
you're about
[13:12] <Dracos> I asked her yesterday to commit what
she thought was
the best solution
[13:12] <johnny> ok
[13:12] <johnny> cool
[13:12] <johnny> problem solved then
[13:13] <Dracos> I would really like to get 1.1.4 out
before new year's gmt
[13:13] <johnny> we'll see
[13:13] <johnny> so what else is there to discuss?
[13:13] <johnny> on that note
[13:13] <Dracos> all our plans hinge on 1.1.4 at this
point
[13:15] <Dracos> we couyld move on to the nls site
proposal
[13:15] <johnny> but we don't even know if it's
feasible
[13:16] <johnny> we need the folks who've actually
used ferenc's tool
before we can make any decisions onthat
[13:16] <johnny> about how resource intensive it is,
etc
[13:16] <johnny> seems like it might be
[13:16] <johnny> we prolly need to put it somewhere
else than newton
[13:16] <Dracos> ferenc says it takes 1-1.5 hours do
do an initial import
[13:17] <johnny> then we definitely need another box
for it then
[13:17] <Dracos> I don't know if that covers all
tranlations or if it's
for each one
[13:17] <johnny> plus.. i sadly noticed that the demo
site is still down
[13:17] <johnny> boom said he would fix it before
[13:17] <Dracos> it's one of the sites on lighty
[13:17] <johnny> i wonder if i can convince him to
look at it again
[13:18] <johnny> the problem isn't lighty
[13:18] <johnny> it's pound i think
[13:18] <Dracos> yes
[13:18] <johnny> but.. maybe we should stop with the
proxying
[13:18] <johnny> i don't see the benefit
[13:18] <Hb> fernec tool is good. It took nearly four
hours to import
the german xml files on a pentium 4
[13:18] <Dracos> what else was that machine doing at
the time?
[13:19] <Hb> He said that this import is in no way
optimized because it
has to be done only once for a release
[13:19] <Hb> That import was the main task on a
windows machine
[13:19] <Dracos> I think that explains it 
[13:19] <johnny> but it still is impossible to do on
newton
[13:20] <Dracos> perhaps we could do it off of newton
and tranfer it
[13:20] <matias_> i have been using 1.1.4pre
[13:20] <johnny> sounds like a big headache
[13:21] <johnny> somebody is going to mess up the
process and spend time
working on something that isn't even up to date
[13:21] <Hb> ferenc tool is wonderful for the current
structure of
xarayas xml files because these files contain the same
source strings
multiple times
[13:21] <Dracos> perhaps someone could work with
ferenc on optimizing it?
[13:22] <johnny> i doubt it is going to happen in the
short term tho
[13:22] <johnny> we just need to get another box
[13:22] <Hb> the second big advantage is that the tool
does not forgets
the translation when only one single letter is changed in
the source
[13:23] <Dracos> hold on, let's back up a bit
[13:23] <Dracos> is anyone against creating a single
site for all
translation work?
[13:23] <Hb> Should the descicion about the tool
concern the situation
in xar2? Most translations for xar1 are done
[13:24] <Dracos> 1x translations are is various states
of completion
[13:24] <matias_> finnish isnt done
[13:24] <Dracos> I've been sent a czech tranlation
that only contains
the core and the installer module
[13:24] <Hb> if you are the only translator it would
be easier to work
with that tool lokally
[13:25] <matias_> i'm not
[13:25] <Dracos> let's set aside ferenc's tool for a
moment
[13:25] <johnny> isn't that the most important point
of the discussion?
[13:25] <Dracos> is it feasable to have all
translators use a single site?
[13:25] <johnny> i don't see why it wouldn't be..
[13:25] <johnny> but i'm not a translator
[13:26] <Hb> As said above: The tool is only a last
resort tool to
overcome the unfriendly concept in generating the
translation files
[13:26] <Dracos> so, when you say the tool does an
import, it really
means export?
[13:26] <johnny> the translation module allows you to
do translations
for multiple languages ?
[13:27] <johnny> if so, then it should be possible to
integrate them all
[13:27] <Dracos> the translation module's process
starts with choosing a
translation
[13:27] <johnny> then we just have the language
chooser block
[13:27] <Hb> the different languages are not based on
the same input strings
[13:28] <Dracos> they should be based on the English
strings
[13:29] <Dracos> ie, en_US -> x, rather than en_US
-> x -> y -> z
[13:30] <Hb> yes they do. The tool separates the
output languages
completely. It could deal with EN (version 1.1.3) -> GER
and EN(ver
1.1.4) ->Spain
[13:30] <Dracos> even though we have some en_GB
spellings mixed in
[13:30] <Hb> the input strings are indepedent from
each other
[13:31] <Dracos> k
[13:32] <Hb> we have now a lot of XML files for each
module. They should
be reduced to only one per module and the last one for the
core
[13:32] <matias_> currently yes, the strings are
generated when you
build skels
[13:32] <Dracos> unless someone wants to work on how
translations are
organized in 1.5, we're stuck with what we have
[13:32] <Hb> these smaller amount of files could be
handled a lot easier
[13:33] <Dracos> I would guess that the muliple files
setup is to reduce
memory usage
[13:33] <Hb> matias: yes. but we have just now the
common.xml files in
each module when a string occurs more than once in a module
[13:34] <johnny> i don't see it will get solved until
com.xaraya.core.unstable mls stuff is figured out
[13:34] <matias_> sorry for delays, i have a sick baby
sleeping in my arms
[13:34] <johnny> we actually had a function for stuff
like that
[13:34] <johnny> xarMLByKey
[13:34] <johnny> nobody uses it tho
[13:34] <johnny> it would be for stuff like 'Yes'
[13:34] <johnny> or 'Submit'
[13:35] <Dracos> most of those could be put in a
universal common file
[13:36] <johnny> the universal common file is the
source
[13:37] <Hb> Congratulations for fatherhood Matias.
[13:38] <Hb> that could be done by a new version of
the translation module
[13:38] <Hb> core changes are not needed
[13:38] <matias_> Hb: thanks. child getting teeth
isn't just among the
best moments
[13:39] <Dracos> true
[13:39] <johnny> well, who's going to code for the
translations module?
[13:39] <Dracos> whoever volunteers
[13:40] <Hb> *
[13:40] <random> note that the translation module uses
the MLS backends
[13:40] <random> so there may be core changes
depending on what you
want to do
[13:42] <Dracos> true
[13:42] <Hb> yes. nothing of that should change.
Currently the module
looks if a string occurs twice or more in a module and puts
this string
in the common.xml file. All other strings are out in file
depended xml
files. I would like to have the module to put ALL strings in
the
common.xml file
[13:42] <random> ouch
[13:42] <Hb> For heavens sake: Never touch the core!
[13:42] <random> you'd load that file with every
template?
[13:43] <Hb> Core loads it i guees
[13:43] <random> it will if all the transatins are
there
[13:43] <random> translations
[13:44] <Dracos> and if you have blocks from many
modules, you're
loading a lot of overhead
[13:45] <matias_> if everything was in one file, there
need to be way to
know where to look the string
[13:45] <Dracos> I assume the references nodes would
still exist in the
common file
[13:45] <Hb> Xaraya works with only one language file,
see
http://www.xaraya.com/index.php/newsgroups/xaraya.d
evel/13540
[13:46] <Dracos> well, this is about providing the
best and most
feasable setup for translators to work in
[13:46] <Dracos> not how translations work
[13:47] <Dracos> I'm going to be starting a 1.5
roadmap thread soon,
don't forget this discussion
[13:47] <random> nice work Hb
[13:48] <Hb> Handling with a smaller amount of files
would be easier
[13:49] <Hb> You have to work only with one file for
each module. That
speeds up translating I think
[13:49] <Hb> You are right, it say nothing over the
organisation of the
process itself
[13:51] <random> just for the record I don't agree
that other language
strings should be based on English strings, but it's what we
have alas
[13:51] * david_d has joined #devel
[13:51] <Dracos> we are a victim of the last 400 years
of global politics
[13:52] <Jo> [06:38] johnny: Jo, let us know your
fixes when you're about
[13:52] <Jo> i'm here for about 10 min
[13:52] <Jo> i don't use php less than 5.2
[13:52] <Dracos> hurry up and commit your chosen fix
[13:52] <Jo> i don't have any chosen fix - i sent my
notes to random
[13:52] <Hb> lol
[13:53] <Jo> for myself i just suppressed the error
and be done with it
[13:53] <Jo> i tested on php 5.2.4
[13:53] <Jo> sent my notes to random at his request as
i've not had time
lately with xmas/new year
[13:53] <Jo> that is just a bug too, on commits - i've
been tested every
commit this year
[13:53] <Jo> but also bugs
[13:54] <Jo> there are other problems - but this was a
little more
lately, and evident if working with php error handler on
[13:55] <Jo> anyway - have to go, back lter
[13:56] <Jo> oh btw - quick note - isn't proxy apache?
also - demo could
proly be fixed mebbe by importing the standard demo site sql
that is in
that demo dir
[13:56] <Jo> i'll read rest when i get back
[13:56] <Jo> ttyl
[13:57] <Dracos> demo goes to an infinite redirect
last I checked
[14:04] <Dracos> yup
[14:05] <random> sounds like a template issue
[14:06] <Hb> In bugs.xar.com we have two open bugs for
"PHP 5.2".
Checking for "PHP 5.1" is impossible because
bugzilla died
[14:07] <Dracos> it's back now
[14:11] <Dracos> for me, anyway
[14:12] <Dracos> maybe not
[14:12] <Dracos> it's just really slow
[14:12] <Dracos> any other items to discuss?
[14:14] <matias_> about sundays
[14:14] <matias_> should the day be changed?
[14:15] <Dracos> it's been sunday at a similar time
since the postnuke days
[14:17] <Dracos> difficult to be convenient for people
all over the world
[14:17] <matias_> saturdays would be easier, i guess
[14:17] <random> saturdays people go out
[14:17] <Dracos> yes
[14:18] <matias_> i thought that they go out on
fridays
[14:18] <matias_>
[14:18] <Dracos> people go out during the day on
saturdays
[14:19] <Dracos> I doubt we'll be able to find a more
accomodating day
than sunday
[14:19] <matias_> ah, forgot that one
[14:19] <matias_> here it's late evening
[14:20] <Dracos> we can move it forward a couple
hours, at most, I think
[14:21] <matias_> then it would perhaps be better for
jojo but worse wor
european
[14:21] <matias_> for
[14:21] <Dracos> it would be worse for jojo
[14:21] <Dracos> later is better for her
[14:21] <Dracos> these meetings start at 5:30am for
her
[14:22] <matias_> ouch
[14:22] <Dracos> yep
[14:22] <Dracos> monday morning, also
[14:22] <matias_> that's why i proposed sat
[14:23] <Dracos> I wouldn't be able to attend most
saturdays
[14:23] <Dracos> have real life stuff to do
[14:23] <Hb> The current meeting time is not bad
[14:24] <Hb> we can go an hour back, so it is 06:30
down under
[14:24] <Hb> or maybe two hours
[14:24] <Hb> finish time is same as in central
europe?
[14:25] <Dracos> that's 11pm in europe
[14:25] <matias_> no, its +1
[14:25] <matias_> so 12pm
[14:25] <Hb> current meeting starts at 22:00 for you?
[14:25] <matias_> yes
[14:26] <matias_> later is worse because of mondays..
[14:26] <Dracos> yup
[14:26] <Dracos> no matter when we change it to, it's
a trade off
[14:28] <matias_> saturday evening / sunday morning?
[14:29] <Dracos> evening in eu is early afternoon for
me
[14:29] <Dracos> or late morning
[14:29] <matias> sunday morning in eu
[14:30] <Dracos> is the middle fo the night for me
[14:30] <Dracos> I'm -7, johnny is -5
[14:31] <matias_> ok
[14:31] <matias_> then not
[14:31] <matias_> need to go now
[14:31] <Dracos> right, we won't find a better
compromise
[14:31] <Dracos> anything else before I adjourn?
[14:31] <matias_> maybe this is the best compromise
[14:31] <Dracos> the next few weeks are going to be
pretty active, I hope
[14:33] <Hb> Hopefully
[14:34] <Dracos> ok, meeting adjourned
[14:34] <Dracos> ###################### MEETING ENDS
######################
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