Problem with yaboot/YDL 4.0.1

Hi Keith:
I'm unsure whether anyone has responded to you, but I'll
attempt an
answer.  First, according to the pdisk dump what you are
being told
there is that you probably used Apple's Disk Utility to
partition your
drive however you selected the option for Unix, instead of
the official
recommendation from Terra Soft that you select the option
for Free
Space.  

You may have skipped over page 2 of the YDL guide.  But
don't worry, it
is available (the details you need) here:

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/support/installation/

Download and read the guide you need and read page 2.  It's
a bit
confusing unfortunately as the page on the left is page 9
and page 2 is
immediately on the right.  Likewise the pages above that are
page 1 on
the left and page 10 on the right.  Obviously, the intention
is that you
print out the manual and arrange the pages properly and then
it'll make
an easier read.  However, in this case, we are in a bit of a
hurry to
get to the point.

The instructions for partioning OS X begin on page 1 (steps
1-3) and
continue on page 2 (steps 4 - 16).  If any one of the steps
are not
understood, feel free to write to this list again.  However,
what many
people miss, just like you missed, is step 9 and 10.  In
step 8 you can
determine at this point how large each partition will be. 
That is how
much will be for OS X and how much will be for YDL.  Disk
Utility makes
doing this childs play so that you forget what you are
actually doing so
pay attention to how you name and select each area.  I
don't recall
whether Disk Utility names the OSX portion for you
automatically, let's
assume it does not.  So click upon the top portion and
create a name for
that partition.  The second partition however leave as
Untitled, and
make sure that the partition type (as instructed in step 10)
is the pop
up option called Free Space.  That button is a pop-up
because other
partition options are available besides that which you see
when you get
to the partition section of Disk Utility. 

All this is what you need to do from the Mac OS X side
first.  The linux
installation proceeds after Disk Utility has created these
different
paritions.

The choice to split your drive into Mac OS X on one side and
Linux on
the other takes some tedious attention, but it isn't
impossible.  Of
course, you have to reinstall OS X from scratch into the new
partition
for OS X just created.  You can wait for that later and
proceed to
installing YDL as the Free Space will be recognized by YDL
as being
available for installation.  You will still have to deal
with preparing
each mount point (pay attention to details on pages 4 and 5)
written
into that Free Space.  Also you will have to be able to
recognize Mac
partitions from Linux sees.

Using parted the partitions when everything is done
correctly will look
like this:

[aguilaarakus sbin]$ su
Password:
[rootarakus sbin]# ./parted
GNU Parted 1.6.22
Copyright (C) 1998 - 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This program is free software, covered by the GNU General
Public
License.
 
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be
useful, but
WITHOUT ANY
WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or
FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License for
more
details.
 
Using /dev/hda
(parted) print
Disk geometry for /dev/hda: 0.000-76319.085 megabytes
Disk label type: mac
Minor    Start       End     Filesystem  Name               
  Flags
1          0.000      0.031              Apple
2          0.031    128.031
3        128.031  34058.777  hfs+       
Apple_HFS_Untitled_2
4      34058.777  38159.574  hfs+        eDrive
5      38159.574  38160.574  hfs         untitled           
  boot
6      38160.574  38928.574  linux-swap  swap               
  swap
7      38928.574  76319.085  ext3        untitled
(parted)

If you want help from parted; look for where parted is
waiting and do:

7      38928.574  76319.085  ext3        untitled
(parted) help
  check MINOR                   do a simple check on the
filesystem
  cp [FROM-DEVICE] FROM-MINOR TO-MINOR      copy filesystem
to another
partition  help [COMMAND]                prints general
help, or help on
COMMAND
  mklabel LABEL-TYPE            create a new disklabel
(partition table)
  mkfs MINOR FS-TYPE            make a filesystem FS-TYPE on
partititon
MINOR
  mkpart PART-TYPE [FS-TYPE] START END      make a partition
  mkpartfs PART-TYPE FS-TYPE START END      make a partition
with a
filesystem
  move MINOR START END          move partition MINOR
  name MINOR NAME               name partition MINOR NAME
  print [MINOR]                 display the partition table,
or a
partition
  quit                          exit program
  rescue START END              rescue a lost partition near
START and
END
  resize MINOR START END        resize filesystem on
partition MINOR
  rm MINOR                      delete partition MINOR
  select DEVICE                 choose the device to edit
  set MINOR FLAG STATE          change a flag on partition
MINOR
(parted)

when you have finished parted:

(parted) quit
Information: Don't forget to update /etc/fstab, if
necessary.
 
[rootarakus sbin]#
--------------------
Note that I'm using parted to merely check the organization
of the
partitions I created.  The hfs+ partitions were created by
using Disk
Utility from within OS X.  As well as preparing and creating
the Free
Space using Disk Utility (as I explained above); then
proceeding forward
with the YDL installation as the manual recommends.

Good Luck....

>         From: Keith Mitchell <kamitchcisco.com>
>         Date: February 27, 2006 7:36:19 PM EST
>         To: Yellow Dog Linux General Discussion List
>         <yellowdog-generallists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
>         Subject: [ydl-gen] Problem with yaboot/YDL
4.0.1
>         Reply-To: Yellow Dog Linux General Discussion
List
>         <yellowdog-generallists.terrasoftsolutions.com>
>         
>         Hi,
>         
>         I installed using the YDL 4.0.1 cd's with the
following
>         partitioning in the ks file:
>         
>         clearpart --all
>         part None --size=1 --fstype="Apple
Bootstrap"
>         part /boot --size=500
>         part swap --size=4096 --grow --maxsize=8096
>         part / --size=4352 --grow --maxsize=6144
>         part /var --size=500 --grow --maxsize=2048
>         part /var/tmp --size=500 --grow --maxsize=2048
>         part /scratch --size=1024 --grow
>         
>         
>         I just tried to update my kernel to a custom
RPM that I built
>         and discovered that yaboot doesn't work.  When
the kernel rpms
>         install, I see:
>         
>         Failed to initialize HFS working directories:
Permission
>         denied
>         ybin: /dev/sda2 appears to have never had a
bootstrap
>         installed, please run mkofboot
>         
>         
>         A 'pdisk' dump of the /dev/sda filesystem:
>         
>         Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on
'/dev/sda'
>         #:                type name        length  
base      ( size )
>         1: Apple_partition_map Apple           63  1
>         2:     Apple_Bootstrap untitled      2048  64      
 (  1.0M)
>         3:     Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled  12578895  2112    
 (  6.0G)
>         4:     Apple_UNIX_SVR2 swap      16579080  12581007
 (  7.9G)
>         5:     Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled 274011791  29160087
 (130.7G)
>         6:     Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled   4192965 
303171878 (  2.0G)
>         7:     Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled   4192965 
307364843 (  2.0G)
>         8:     Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled   1024000 
311557808 (500.0M)
>         
>         
>         
>         I did some investigation and it looks like
hmount (called by
>         ybin) does not like this /dev/sda2 partition. 
I can, however,
>         use 'mount -t hfs' to mount the partition.
>         
>         Has anyone else run into this?  Is there a fix?
>         
>         Thanks.
>         _______________________________________________
>         yellowdog-general mailing list
>         yellowdog-generallists.terrasoftsolutions.com
>         http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/mailma
n/listinfo/yellowdog-general
>         HINT: to Google archives, try 
'<keywords>
>         site:terrasoftsolutions.com'
>         

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Ok.

I'm not clear what "I told YDL" actually means
in this context.

Does it mean that you bought the system directly from Terra
Soft and 
spoke to someone there regarding what you wanted?
That however may be unlikely, as they are very good at not
making this 
kind of error.

Or do you mean you merely started the YDL installation on
the Mac 
without preparing the installed mac hardware to be able to
use YDL?
My intuition tells me that this is probably what you did.

You did not boot your Mac so that it ran from your Installer
disk.  You 
also did not invoke Disk Utility as instructed.
You did not tell Disk Utility to partition the entire hard
drive so 
that there would be 1 partition called Untitled and that
partition 
would be formatted by Disk Utility as Free Space.

As you did not do the above that is why you are where you
are as 
regards this difficulty.

Linux needs to see that partition created by Disk Utility
which Disk 
Utility formats as Free Space.
Then the installation proceeds.

You may not need to know this but the Unix format option
within Disk 
Utility exists for an older version of what was years ago
known as 
Apple Unix; which is different and predates OS X.  That
version of Unix 
doesn't know ext2 or ext3 which Linux does use.  Sometimes
a little 
more information helps; sometimes it doesn't.

In this situation, you merely started with the Unix format
option in 
Apple's Disk Utility or you thought that merely installing
YDL onto a 
Mac whose hard drive is preformatted and loaded with OS X
(expecting 
YDL to merely erase it) would just somehow work.

The fault here is a mere lack of understanding the nuances
of hard 
drive formatting procedures.  Every Linux installation needs
something 
on the hard drive it can see or recognize telling it that it
can 
proceed to do things it's way.  If it doesn't see what it
expects, it 
doesn't know why and it won't care, nor will it complain
or tell you 
something.  It will work as best it can with what it thinks
you want it 
to do.  This is exactly where a little knowledge is a
dangerous thing 
because you understand one thing and it another and this can
go on for 
months and you won't have a clue as to why your
installation is so odd 
from every other Linux installation.

Every company, Apple included, formats their hard drive in a

proprietary manner which only that operating system may use.

Linux by definition is open source which means it's for
everyone.  No 
Linux utility has the proprietary codes which each company
keeps to 
itself; rather Linux can see when it is allowed to format a
drive it's 
way.

In Apple's case, the signal or data Linux needs to see is
that the hard 
drive is prepared for Linux as Free Space by the Disk
Utility 
application.  Linux doesn't see the information the same
way Disk 
Utility does, but it will recognize the Free Space
formatting structure 
and treat it differently from the Unix formatting structure.

   If Linux doesn't see the Free Formatting structure as
prepared by 
Disk Utility, we arrive where you already are.

It is quite possible that I'm completely wrong but the
output you 
originally reported got there somehow, and it is not a
normal Linux 
installation, pure and simple.  The directions I supplied
prior to this 
email applies for installing only YDL (replacing Mac OS X
with YDL) -- 
although sadly Terra Soft's explanation does not emphasize
that.  Maybe 
they will highlight or elaborate upon that one day;
meanwhile I've also 
wiped out OS X replacing it with YDL (several times); the
steps I'm 
discussing and emphasizing -- works.

Best wishes ...

On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Keith Mitchell wrote:

>
>  This machine does *NOT* have Mac OSX installed on it. 
I told YDL to 
> clear the partition table and use the whole disk.

_______________________________________________
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I have actually done all that... but I am installing these
machines via 
kickstart (i.e. without the normal GUI).... perhaps that is
broken.

Derick Centeno wrote:
> Ok.
>
> I'm not clear what "I told YDL" actually
means in this context.
>
> Does it mean that you bought the system directly from
Terra Soft and 
> spoke to someone there regarding what you wanted?
> That however may be unlikely, as they are very good at
not making this 
> kind of error.
>
> Or do you mean you merely started the YDL installation
on the Mac 
> without preparing the installed mac hardware to be able
to use YDL?
> My intuition tells me that this is probably what you
did.
>
> You did not boot your Mac so that it ran from your
Installer disk.  
> You also did not invoke Disk Utility as instructed.
> You did not tell Disk Utility to partition the entire
hard drive so 
> that there would be 1 partition called Untitled and
that partition 
> would be formatted by Disk Utility as Free Space.
>
> As you did not do the above that is why you are where
you are as 
> regards this difficulty.
>
> Linux needs to see that partition created by Disk
Utility which Disk 
> Utility formats as Free Space.
> Then the installation proceeds.
>
> You may not need to know this but the Unix format
option within Disk 
> Utility exists for an older version of what was years
ago known as 
> Apple Unix; which is different and predates OS X.  That
version of 
> Unix doesn't know ext2 or ext3 which Linux does use. 
Sometimes a 
> little more information helps; sometimes it doesn't.
>
> In this situation, you merely started with the Unix
format option in 
> Apple's Disk Utility or you thought that merely
installing YDL onto a 
> Mac whose hard drive is preformatted and loaded with OS
X (expecting 
> YDL to merely erase it) would just somehow work.
>
> The fault here is a mere lack of understanding the
nuances of hard 
> drive formatting procedures.  Every Linux installation
needs something 
> on the hard drive it can see or recognize telling it
that it can 
> proceed to do things it's way.  If it doesn't see
what it expects, it 
> doesn't know why and it won't care, nor will it
complain or tell you 
> something.  It will work as best it can with what it
thinks you want 
> it to do.  This is exactly where a little knowledge is
a dangerous 
> thing because you understand one thing and it another
and this can go 
> on for months and you won't have a clue as to why your
installation is 
> so odd from every other Linux installation.
>
> Every company, Apple included, formats their hard drive
in a 
> proprietary manner which only that operating system may
use.
>
> Linux by definition is open source which means it's
for everyone.  No 
> Linux utility has the proprietary codes which each
company keeps to 
> itself; rather Linux can see when it is allowed to
format a drive it's 
> way.
>
> In Apple's case, the signal or data Linux needs to see
is that the 
> hard drive is prepared for Linux as Free Space by the
Disk Utility 
> application.  Linux doesn't see the information the
same way Disk 
> Utility does, but it will recognize the Free Space
formatting 
> structure and treat it differently from the Unix
formatting structure.
>
>   If Linux doesn't see the Free Formatting structure
as prepared by 
> Disk Utility, we arrive where you already are.
>
> It is quite possible that I'm completely wrong but the
output you 
> originally reported got there somehow, and it is not a
normal Linux 
> installation, pure and simple.  The directions I
supplied prior to 
> this email applies for installing only YDL (replacing
Mac OS X with 
> YDL) -- although sadly Terra Soft's explanation does
not emphasize 
> that.  Maybe they will highlight or elaborate upon that
one day; 
> meanwhile I've also wiped out OS X replacing it with
YDL (several 
> times); the steps I'm discussing and emphasizing --
works.
>
> Best wishes ...
>
> On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Keith Mitchell wrote:
>
>>
>>  This machine does *NOT* have Mac OSX installed on
it.  I told YDL to 
>> clear the partition table and use the whole disk.
>
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list
> yellowdog-generallists.terrasoftsolutions.com
> http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/mailma
n/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '<keywords>
site:terrasoftsolutions.com'


-- 
Keith Mitchell                         |        |         |
kamitchcisco.com                      |       :|:       :|:
7025 Kit Creek Road, P.O. Box 14987    |     :|||||:  
:|||||:
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709       |  
.:|||||||:.:|||||||:.
919-392-9607                           |  c i s c o S y s t
e m s
_______________________________________________
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HINT: to Google archives, try  '<keywords>
site:terrasoftsolutions.com'

Ok.

Frankly, my familiarity with Kickstart ends with
understanding that it 
is for producing files which execute graphical logon scripts
or allow 
graphical logon scripting.  This means you are doing
something 
completely different than most people.  Probably, I'm sure
for good 
reason, however kickstart will not address the fundamental
issue of 
formatting the the hard drive in the manner previously
described.

If the scripts are written such that they do this for you or
attempt 
to, that could be a problem as no script or macro should be
running 
around formatting anything without the correct procedural
steps.  You 
have to just forego do this macro or script and do each
procedure 
manually -- at least then, you'll control exactly each
procedure at 
each step.
Of course, the other way is to write your own scripts, but
before you 
consider that make sure you do know each manual step and
command 
necessary to proceed successfully to the next procedure.  It
will be a 
lot faster for you to see what is needed, test the process
and document 
each step and procedure you engage upon until you develop a
successful 
workflow.  Then you can write a script to emulate all that. 
At least 
that's how I would write such a script.

The problem will remain Apple's Disk Utility of course;
because only it 
can reformat the hard drive from Apple's proprietary format
to what it 
calls Free Space.  No matter how you cut it or what you do,
if that is 
drive is not reformatted such that the entire drive is
structured by 
Apple's Disk Utility as Untitled for the name of the
partition and 
formatted as Free Space which Linux can then see; you will
continue to 
have problems in this area.  By the way, you do know that
this can only 
be done by using the install system disk which came with the
mac and 
invoke Disk Utility from within that system disk.

Kickstart however, is a part of Linux anyway, it can't help
with this.

Suggestion:  Let's suppose you did everything right the
first time.  
Then there should be no discrepancies between your setup and
other 
Linux or YDL or Ubuntu or any other Linux distribution as to
how each 
partition appears to parted or fdisk or pdisk.  Make a
comparison with 
what you posted here as your drive's geometry and just see
what others 
share regarding their systems.  I posted to this list an
output of 
mine.

When everything is done right you can see clearly where the
mount 
points are and which is what.  The only difference you would
have as 
your intention is not to use OS X will be that there should
be no hfs+ 
or hfs other than the Apple Bootstrap partition (which is
explained in 
the YDL manual I recommended).  After you collect this
information from 
others , you'll see pretty quickly the truth of what I told
you 
earlier; your setup is nonstandard.

You can choose to let it be and carry on ... it may work as
it; until 
one day ....

Or you can re-examine the details of what step may have been
missed or 
overlooked and eventually you may achieve a standard Linux
partition 
structure.  By the end of it all, you may believe you
qualify for 
Enlightenment, Sainthood or the Nobel Peace Prize -- but
what you will 
have in fact is a standard functional and stable Linux.

As a rule, never trust scripts or macros unless you know
each and every 
step what the program does.

Good Luck ....

On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Keith Mitchell wrote:

>
> I have actually done all that... but I am installing
these machines 
> via kickstart (i.e. without the normal GUI).... perhaps
that is 
> broken.

_______________________________________________
yellowdog-general mailing list
yellowdog-generallists.terrasoftsolutions.com
http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/mailma
n/listinfo/yellowdog-general
HINT: to Google archives, try  '<keywords>
site:terrasoftsolutions.com'

For the record (in case someone else runs into this) the
problem had 
nothing to do with the partitioning of the system.  The
problem was 
actually related to NFS and the hfsutils package.  In our
network the 
home directory servers are setup so that root does not have
write 
permissions (i.e. maproot=nodbody).  I had also previously
used hfsutils 
from my normal user account (i.e. not root) and thus it
created a .hcwd 
file in my home directory.  Then, when I tried to run
'ybin' or 
'mkofboot' as root, the hfsutils was trying to write to
that .hcwd file 
in my home directory... Due to the permissions it got an
EPERM error 
code back and was the cause of the failure I was seeing.

Apparently if I hadn't previously run hfsutils or if nfs
was setup 
differently I wouldn't have run into this...

In any case, thanks to strace for showing me what was going
on 

Derick Centeno wrote:
> Ok.
>
> I'm not clear what "I told YDL" actually
means in this context.
>
> Does it mean that you bought the system directly from
Terra Soft and 
> spoke to someone there regarding what you wanted?
> That however may be unlikely, as they are very good at
not making this 
> kind of error.
>
> Or do you mean you merely started the YDL installation
on the Mac 
> without preparing the installed mac hardware to be able
to use YDL?
> My intuition tells me that this is probably what you
did.
>
> You did not boot your Mac so that it ran from your
Installer disk.  
> You also did not invoke Disk Utility as instructed.
> You did not tell Disk Utility to partition the entire
hard drive so 
> that there would be 1 partition called Untitled and
that partition 
> would be formatted by Disk Utility as Free Space.
>
> As you did not do the above that is why you are where
you are as 
> regards this difficulty.
>
> Linux needs to see that partition created by Disk
Utility which Disk 
> Utility formats as Free Space.
> Then the installation proceeds.
>
> You may not need to know this but the Unix format
option within Disk 
> Utility exists for an older version of what was years
ago known as 
> Apple Unix; which is different and predates OS X.  That
version of 
> Unix doesn't know ext2 or ext3 which Linux does use. 
Sometimes a 
> little more information helps; sometimes it doesn't.
>
> In this situation, you merely started with the Unix
format option in 
> Apple's Disk Utility or you thought that merely
installing YDL onto a 
> Mac whose hard drive is preformatted and loaded with OS
X (expecting 
> YDL to merely erase it) would just somehow work.
>
> The fault here is a mere lack of understanding the
nuances of hard 
> drive formatting procedures.  Every Linux installation
needs something 
> on the hard drive it can see or recognize telling it
that it can 
> proceed to do things it's way.  If it doesn't see
what it expects, it 
> doesn't know why and it won't care, nor will it
complain or tell you 
> something.  It will work as best it can with what it
thinks you want 
> it to do.  This is exactly where a little knowledge is
a dangerous 
> thing because you understand one thing and it another
and this can go 
> on for months and you won't have a clue as to why your
installation is 
> so odd from every other Linux installation.
>
> Every company, Apple included, formats their hard drive
in a 
> proprietary manner which only that operating system may
use.
>
> Linux by definition is open source which means it's
for everyone.  No 
> Linux utility has the proprietary codes which each
company keeps to 
> itself; rather Linux can see when it is allowed to
format a drive it's 
> way.
>
> In Apple's case, the signal or data Linux needs to see
is that the 
> hard drive is prepared for Linux as Free Space by the
Disk Utility 
> application.  Linux doesn't see the information the
same way Disk 
> Utility does, but it will recognize the Free Space
formatting 
> structure and treat it differently from the Unix
formatting structure.
>
>   If Linux doesn't see the Free Formatting structure
as prepared by 
> Disk Utility, we arrive where you already are.
>
> It is quite possible that I'm completely wrong but the
output you 
> originally reported got there somehow, and it is not a
normal Linux 
> installation, pure and simple.  The directions I
supplied prior to 
> this email applies for installing only YDL (replacing
Mac OS X with 
> YDL) -- although sadly Terra Soft's explanation does
not emphasize 
> that.  Maybe they will highlight or elaborate upon that
one day; 
> meanwhile I've also wiped out OS X replacing it with
YDL (several 
> times); the steps I'm discussing and emphasizing --
works.
>
> Best wishes ...
>
> On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Keith Mitchell wrote:
>
>>
>>  This machine does *NOT* have Mac OSX installed on
it.  I told YDL to 
>> clear the partition table and use the whole disk.
>
> _______________________________________________
> yellowdog-general mailing list
> yellowdog-generallists.terrasoftsolutions.com
> http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/mailma
n/listinfo/yellowdog-general
> HINT: to Google archives, try  '<keywords>
site:terrasoftsolutions.com'
_______________________________________________
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