> -----Original Message-----
> From: G Money [mailto:gm0n3y06 gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:08 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: Boy Scouts Of America
>
> On Nov 6, 2007 6:01 PM, Jim Davis <HOFListsdepressedpress.com> wrote:
>
> > There's a basic "moral" drive. Much of
it, if looked at
> subjectively, can
> > be traced to the evolutionary pressures on social
animals. Sharing
> > resources, cooperative protection of the young,
punishment for
> violence to
> > the group - these all exist in pretty much all
higher-order social
> > animals.
>
> Well, I dunno Jim...religion, or at least the belief in
a God, has been
> around a LOOOONG time...maybe even since the very first
human like
> creature became capable of thought.
Even granting your argument you would then have to
acknowledge that morality
does not require any particular belief. Animistic beliefs
were the norm for
many thousands of years. Poly-theism was (and still is)
very prevalent.
It's also worth noting that many religions (namely many
Eastern religions)
lack many of the concepts that we're talking about: moral
codes, punishment,
etc.
So if we (for me, only for the sake of argument) agree that
religion is a
cornerstone of morality it seems clear that any old
religion, as formal or
as informal as you like will do. Of course while that might
seem true it's
also belied by the fact that many modern religions claim
moral superiority
only for themselves, go so far on many occasions throughout
history, to seek
to exterminate others.
Religion can definitely manipulate our basic morals,
sometimes for the
better, sometimes for the worse. Sacrificial faiths (many
still around
today) tend to run counter to our instincts (especially
those whch involve
human sacrifice). Various religions have encouraged
cannibalism, child
abuse, poor diet, self-mutilation and many other things
which don't
generally fit with basic moral stances.
At the same time religions have also enhanced certain moral
principles
beyond what they might be: charity, community, etc.
> We can't necessarily say for sure whether a sense of
morality predated
> belief in a higher power. Maybe the two have been
intertwined since
> their inception.....
But we can definitely see the foundational aspects of our
morality in other
higher-order animals: primates and cetaceans, especially.
Looking at the biological imperatives it's at least
plausible to suggest
that our complex moral codes are derived from those baser,
but clearly
similar behaviors. They are enhanced, codified and made
more complex by our
higher intelligence but still very similar.
In short it's possible to see naturalistic reasons (and
current examples)
for the basis of morality.
I'm not for a second saying that religion has no impact on
morality - just
the opposite; it has a huge impact. I'm suggesting that the
roots of
morality lie much farther back in the formation and
evolution of social
groups.
Jim Davis
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