Re: Terrorism, the new Cold War.

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Michael Dinowitz
<mdinowithouseoffusion.com> wrote:
....
>  Revenge? Man, your ideas are really strange. Trying to
stop people from
>  killing me is not revenge. I'm in NY. I can have my
bag searched at any time
>  on the train because of known, direct threats to my
life. Is that piece of
>  security losing our way?

How much would it take for you to think so?  Demands to see
your papers?

Or, let me guess, you don't mind having to wear an picture
ID to get
on the bus, if it means you're "safe".

How is searching your bag going to prevent someone from
blowing up the
train?  You really think it's that hard to come up with ways
to get
around whatever we put in place?

How far do you go before you draw the line?

>  >
>  > Becoming evil to fight evil.
>
>  Evil? What evil? If your talking phone tapping, there
are groups fighting
>  that (and other intrusions to personal space). That's
the wonder of our
>  country - we can fight the powers that be and win. And
not lose our head.

Wow!  You actually agree that the domestic spying is not so
good?  I
had you pegged for: "it makes us safe" and
"if you're not doing
anything wrong"-- the safety is worth more than the
intrusion,
basically.

Nice.

Yes, it's swell that there are those groups.  Not so swell
that there
wasn't an instant "WTF?!?!  Turned over my records to
WHO?  AND YOU
DON'T
HAVE A RECORD OF IT?!?!?" that was a bad sign.  

>  > Don't get me wrong, I love Spawn and anti-heroes
and whatnot, that's
>  > pretty bad-ass...
>
>  Which has nothing to do with this

You don't have to be a "good guy" to be a good
guy.  (Probably close
to my idea of the US)

I just wish we looked like Cap more or something.  *shrug* 
yeah, silly, I know.

>  > The ends do not justify the means.  Pretty
simple.

>  How far are you willing to go when you know for a fact
that someone wants
>  you dead and has shown it by shooting directly at
you?

You do remember that I said I've been shot, right?

-Den

--
Courage is not the lack of fear but the ability to face
it."
---- Lt. John B. Putnam Jr. (1921-1944)

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What does normal society law say about this?

does it give you the power to shoot someone you think is
trying to
kill you before they make an attempt?

Does it allow you to blow someone's brains out because they
shot at you before?

No. It does not.

>  <mdinowithouseoffusion.com> wrote:

> >  How far are you willing to go when you know for a
fact that someone wants
>  >  you dead and has shown it by shooting directly
at you?

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On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:06 PM, denstar
<valliantstergmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Michael Dinowitz
> <mdinowithouseoffusion.com> wrote:
> ....
> >  Revenge? Man, your ideas are really strange.
Trying to stop people from
> >  killing me is not revenge. I'm in NY. I can have
my bag searched at any
> time
> >  on the train because of known, direct threats to
my life. Is that piece
> of
> >  security losing our way?
>
> How much would it take for you to think so?  Demands to
see your papers?

Been on an airplane recently?


>
>
> Or, let me guess, you don't mind having to wear an
picture ID to get
> on the bus, if it means you're "safe".

I do mind and that's been fought against for years. I do
need a picture ID
in some buildings. Is that too far?

>
>
> How is searching your bag going to prevent someone from
blowing up the
> train?  You really think it's that hard to come up with
ways to get
> around whatever we put in place?

Anything can be gotten around by smart people but most of
"them" are not and
can be (and have been) caught by these simple preventative
measures.

>
>
> How far do you go before you draw the line?

When they come into my home its too far. When they strip
search me its too
far. When I need an ID to get into any public building its
too far. I'm not
even happy showing an ID to get on a plain but I'm willing
to have my
luggage checked.

>
> >  Evil? What evil? If your talking phone tapping,
there are groups
> fighting
> >  that (and other intrusions to personal space).
That's the wonder of our
> >  country - we can fight the powers that be and
win. And not lose our
> head.
>
> Wow!  You actually agree that the domestic spying is
not so good?  I
> had you pegged for: "it makes us safe" and
"if you're not doing
> anything wrong"-- the safety is worth more than
the intrusion,
> basically.

Public vs. private. I'm willing to allow some checks in a
public place but
not in a private one unless there is just cause. The
government has no cause
to suspect me of anything so I don't expect a phone tap on
my phones. On the
other hand, this list is public and if its being monitored
by the
government, then they are welcome to the headache of our
conversations. 


>
>
> Nice.
>
> Yes, it's swell that there are those groups.  Not so
swell that there
> wasn't an instant "WTF?!?!  Turned over my records
to WHO?  AND YOU
> DON'T
> HAVE A RECORD OF IT?!?!?" that was a bad sign. 


Huh?

>
>
> >  > Don't get me wrong, I love Spawn and
anti-heroes and whatnot, that's
> >  > pretty bad-ass...
> >
> >  Which has nothing to do with this
>
> You don't have to be a "good guy" to be a
good guy.  (Probably close
> to my idea of the US)

Spawn is a product of the 80's and trying to apply the 80's
to now is like
applying the 60's to the 80's.

>
>
> I just wish we looked like Cap more or something. 
*shrug*  yeah, silly, I
> know.

You mean dead?  (unless he was a skrull...)

>
>
> >  > The ends do not justify the means.  Pretty
simple.
>
> >  How far are you willing to go when you know for a
fact that someone
> wants
> >  you dead and has shown it by shooting directly at
you?
>
> You do remember that I said I've been shot, right?

No. Do you remember how many times I've been shot at?

Missing is not an excuse when bullets are involved.


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I missed the "I've been shot" thing.

what's the back story there?

You mentioned killing as though you had done it before too,
you prior 
service or something else?

denstar wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Michael Dinowitz
> <mdinowithouseoffusion.com> wrote:
> ....
>>  Revenge? Man, your ideas are really strange.
Trying to stop people from
>>  killing me is not revenge. I'm in NY. I can have
my bag searched at any time
>>  on the train because of known, direct threats to
my life. Is that piece of
>>  security losing our way?
> 
> How much would it take for you to think so?  Demands to
see your papers?
> 
> Or, let me guess, you don't mind having to wear an
picture ID to get
> on the bus, if it means you're "safe".
> 
> How is searching your bag going to prevent someone from
blowing up the
> train?  You really think it's that hard to come up with
ways to get
> around whatever we put in place?
> 
> How far do you go before you draw the line?
> 
>>  >
>>  > Becoming evil to fight evil.
>>
>>  Evil? What evil? If your talking phone tapping,
there are groups fighting
>>  that (and other intrusions to personal space).
That's the wonder of our
>>  country - we can fight the powers that be and win.
And not lose our head.
> 
> Wow!  You actually agree that the domestic spying is
not so good?  I
> had you pegged for: "it makes us safe" and
"if you're not doing
> anything wrong"-- the safety is worth more than
the intrusion,
> basically.
> 
> Nice.
> 
> Yes, it's swell that there are those groups.  Not so
swell that there
> wasn't an instant "WTF?!?!  Turned over my records
to WHO?  AND YOU
> DON'T
> HAVE A RECORD OF IT?!?!?" that was a bad sign. 

> 
>>  > Don't get me wrong, I love Spawn and
anti-heroes and whatnot, that's
>>  > pretty bad-ass...
>>
>>  Which has nothing to do with this
> 
> You don't have to be a "good guy" to be a
good guy.  (Probably close
> to my idea of the US)
> 
> I just wish we looked like Cap more or something. 
*shrug*  yeah, silly, I know.
> 
>>  > The ends do not justify the means.  Pretty
simple.
> 
>>  How far are you willing to go when you know for a
fact that someone wants
>>  you dead and has shown it by shooting directly at
you?
> 
> You do remember that I said I've been shot, right?
> 
> -Den
> 
> --
> Courage is not the lack of fear but the ability to face
it."
> ---- Lt. John B. Putnam Jr. (1921-1944)
> 
> 

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