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Thread: Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna




Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
country flaguser name
United States
2008-03-28 09:42:07
I'm saying that denying there is a strong and prevalent
moderate side,
advocating the destruction of a city and civilisation as
some sort of
solution to a problem of an extremist minority, is Genocide,
hatred
and in itself Extremism simply on the other side of the
divide.

I've read about the denunciations, I've seen the Clerics and
Imams in
Britain speak out against the rioting and the violence
during the
Netherlands fiasco. I find it extremely difficult to believe
that you
haven't seen and read about these also.

On 28/03/2008, Michael Dinowitz <mdinowithouseoffusion.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Vivec
<gel214thgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, where are they? Where are the clear denunciation
of the extremists?
>  Where are the clear calls for peace and love of ones
fellow?

>I said that the Muslim community has to confront the
extremist
>  elements of their own community. Whats needed is high
level, clear
>  denunciation of these extremists. What we have is low
level denunciations,
>  denunciations couched in language that is not clearly
denunciations and in
>  general fear of denunciation. >
>
> What is? You're saying this without context so I really
can't answer but
>  yes, honest enough to teach children the same hate.

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Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
country flaguser name
United States
2008-03-28 10:08:29
Um, where have I EVER advocated the destruction of a city or
civilization?
Your bringing in the genocide word again and again but who
are you claiming
is calling for it?
Besides that, the strong and prevalent moderate side I'm
seeing isn't as
moderate as you want to believe. Who are they? CAIR? Abbas?
People who say
"the riots were bad but the pictures were worse"?

And yes, there are some in open, western countries, who
speak out but that's
because they feel safe. And even with that safety, the
number speaking out
is pitifully small. But I guess its the safety issue. I see
you safe in an
open, western country protesting whats being said here. Go
live in Syria and
protest. Go live in American ally Egypt or Saudi Arabia and
protest.
Different story. But until the protests are said by Muslims
in the Muslim
world against Muslim extremists, nothing will change.

Yes, protests against Jews by Jews in Israel (and other
places) exist as do
protests by Christians in Christian countries (and other
places).

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Vivec <gel214thgmail.com> wrote:

> I'm saying that denying there is a strong and prevalent
moderate side,
> advocating the destruction of a city and civilisation
as some sort of
> solution to a problem of an extremist minority, is
Genocide, hatred
> and in itself Extremism simply on the other side of the
divide.
>
> I've read about the denunciations, I've seen the
Clerics and Imams in
> Britain speak out against the rioting and the violence
during the
> Netherlands fiasco. I find it extremely difficult to
believe that you
> haven't seen and read about these also.
>


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Re: I can't believe no one has posted yet about Fitna
country flaguser name
United States
2008-03-28 17:04:18
This film is not a news story, balance is irrelevant. The
film advocates a
position against Islamization of the West. Yes, it is
inflammatory, but
nowhere does it advocate wiping out all Mulsims or Islam
itself. What is
wrong with opposing the notion that mosques should have a
role in
government? What is wrong with opposing people who would
force their
religion on you by the sword? The rhetoric coming from
extremist Muslims is
akin to Nazi rhetoric in the 1930's in Europe. Germany was
not 100% Nazi
thugs. But the violent and vocal extremist Nazi party
imposed its will on
the rest of the German population. In the 1930's, few people
understood the
threat from Hitler and the Nazi party. Some people in the
U.S. even
supported them.  European governments failed to understand
the stakes, and
the world was cast into chaos for almost a decade because of
it.

In the Middle East, the situation is actually far worse in
some ways than
Germany in the 1930's. Authoritarian governments throughout
the region have
used Islam, through mosques, madrassas, and television, to
brainwash their
populations to support an ideology of violence and hatred.
Clearly there are
opponents, but in much of the Middle East they face the
possibility of
prison or death if they speak out. Most of the population
doesn't need to
actively support the extremist ideology, quiet compliance is
more than
enough. Like Germany in the 1930's, the extremists openly
advocate a war of
subjugation against the "others" without any fear
of punishment. And we
stand idly by watching as their movements grow and their
hatred takes seed
around the world.

And yoiu are exactly right- oppression and poverty are
driving issues in
many of these countries. The time has come for free people
everywhere to
denounce Islamo-fascism and stand together with the
moderates in the Muslim
world to support a vision of freedom and prosperity for
everyone, regardless
of race, religion, or ethnicity. We are already engaged in
that task, and
brave people from our societies in the West have laid down
their lives in
hellish places like Iraq and Afghanistan so that those
oppressed people
might one day taste the freedoms that we have enjoyed our
entire lives.




On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 7:42 AM, Vivec  wrote:

> I'm saying that denying there is a strong and prevalent
moderate side,
> advocating the destruction of a city and civilisation
as some sort of
> solution to a problem of an extremist minority, is
Genocide, hatred
> and in itself Extremism simply on the other side of the
divide.
>
> I've read about the denunciations, I've seen the
Clerics and Imams in
> Britain speak out against the rioting and the violence
during the
> Netherlands fiasco. I find it extremely difficult to
believe that you
> haven't seen and read about these also.


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