Maemo Language bindings and priorities

Hi,

this is just a theory since I haven't written anything with
GUI for 
Maemo platform yet but my priority would be

python -> mono/java -> c++ -> c

The last one - c - is pure theory for me for anything
bigger. My life is 
too short and too busy for coding GUIs in C 

So to sum it up I'd like to see Python and C#/Mono bindings
supported. 
Python for fast prototyping, mono when it grows
bigger/slower/hard to 
maintain. Also Java (with SWT?) would be a nice bonus.

Also I'd like to see pure bourne shell 'bindings' for GUI
i.e. something 
like dialog or gtk-server, but these are not real bindings
of course so 
it is a bit off topic.

Frantisek
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On 4/10/07, Frantisek Dufka <dufkafseznam.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Also I'd like to see pure bourne shell 'bindings' for
GUI i.e. something
> like dialog or gtk-server, but these are not real
bindings of course so
> it is a bit off topic.

Mmm, do you know about "Zenity"? http://directory
.fsf.org/zenity.html
(a bit outdated...)

>
> Frantisek
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On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 16:20 +0300, Jukka-Pekka.Iivonennokia.com
wrote:

Hi Jukka-Pekka,

> I'm collecting developer feedback regarding language
binding needs on
> maemo. Hildon and other APIs need bindings in order to
have native
> support in languages other than C.

See my comments inline. This topic partly interfers with the
"Java
language bindings" proposal for Google SoC by Clemens
Eisserer for which
I applied as mentor.

> Currently there exists unofficial bindings for  C++,
for example, and
> bindings for Python. So the question is what bindings
do you need for
> your development,

Bindings for hildon (GUI) and d-bus (communication with
system services)
+ other Gnome related APIs would be needed for decent java
support in
maemo.

> for what language,

Java.

> and why (if not obvious)?

A tight integration (i.e. UI is not distinguishable from the
UI of a C
+hildon application while still as powerfull) of Java into
maemo is
still missing. General support for the Java language is
already in place
(as reported previously on this list).

Currently Java has different APIs for UI programming. None
of them
directly fits with hildon. Among the most widely used are:

1. Swing (Java's own UI toolkit) [1]
2. SWT (based on GTK) [2]
3. AWT (Java's old own UI toolkit) [3]
4. java-gnome (bindings for GTK) [4]

IMO one of these should serve as a starting point for any
"java-hildon"
binding activity.

Greets,
  Jonek.

[1]
http://java.sun.com/javase/6/do
cs/api/index.html?javax/swing/package-summary.html
[2] http://www.eclipse.org/sw
t/
[3]
http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/
api/index.html?java/awt/package-summary.html
[4] http://java-gnome.
sourceforge.net/

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Jukka-Pekka,

I am very pleased with existing *unofficial* C++[1] binding
and would
like its support become official for the lifetime of the
Internet
Tablet.

--Vlad--

[1]
<http://www.murrayc.com/blog/
permalink/2007/01/22/maemomm-maemo-for-c-with-gtkmm/>


Maemomm reference: <h
ttp://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/index.html>
Maemomm User Doc:
<http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/h
tml/index.html>


 

On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 16:20 +0300, Jukka-Pekka.Iivonennokia.com
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm collecting developer feedback regarding language
binding needs on
> maemo. Hildon and other APIs need bindings in order to
have native
> support in languages other than C. Currently there
exists unofficial
> bindings for  C++, for example, and bindings for
Python. So the
> question is what bindings do you need for your
development, for what
> language, and why (if not obvious)?  Thanks!
> 
> And, btw, thanks for the documentation improvement
feedback!
> 
> Regards, 
> JP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developersmaemo.org
> h
ttps://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

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Hi,

my interest is also in Java language bindings. As I
mentioned before, we
have started JaLiMo [1] therefore and since a week, the time
to work on
JaLiMo grows. So maybe its time to start sharing the ideas.

It seems to me, that Johannes and I have a similar
understanding, of the
problems with Java on small Linux devices: The basic JVM is
a first
step, but we have to target the problems beyond that, which
is the
integration with the desktop and the system environment.

I like those hildon and osso ideas but I don't want to stick
with a
library only available in *one* linux distribution. When I
do that work
for maemo today, I don't want to start from scratch on
openmoko or
distribution xyz some time later. That's why I don't want to
have JaLiMo
on garage.maemo.org for example.

I would like to identify the basic concepts and build an
interface based
API above them, as it was the idea in Java from the
beginning on.
The required concepts I see at the moment are:
- messaging between applications
- having a *gui program* with
  + title and icon
  + menu entrie
  + different actions (e.g. menu entries)
    in different container (e.g. menu, toolbar or system
tray)
- having something like a system tray
- control of instantiation and runtime of applications
- and (maybe) build the gui resting upon a gui description
file
I think, all of this can used without knowing the currently
used GUI
library and implementation peer.
(If someone is interested in it, I will publish my early API
drafts on [1])

Along with this API requirements I see the following:
- Running all java applications in one jvm process
- compiling and packaging applications from the preferred
Java
development/build environments (e.g. maven, eclipse, ...)
- simple cross compilation of JNI projects

As you know, I have started with cacao/jamvm, classpath and
java-gnome,
but would love to see all other alternatives (e.g. PhoneME,
(e)SWT,
Swing, ..) as well. Java-gnome was my choice because it
seems to be near
to maemo, opmenmoko and GPE and it is very lightweight.
If I had to come to a production quality environment for a
huge project
in an short time, I maybe would consider using eSWT, like
others do in a
similar environment. (e.g. IBM J9 [2] and AONIX Perc [3])
Again, this is a reason for me to encapsulate the above
concepts in an
API beside the GUI Library. This would give us the
possibility to
introduce additional gui libraries and reuse the work done
before.

Regards,
  Sebastian

[1] http://www.manc
ke-software.de/jalimo/
[2] http:/
/www-306.ibm.com/software/wireless/weme/
[3] http://www.aonix.com/p
erc.html

Johannes Eickhold schrieb:
> On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 16:20 +0300,
Jukka-Pekka.Iivonennokia.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Jukka-Pekka,
> 
>> I'm collecting developer feedback regarding
language binding needs on
>> maemo. Hildon and other APIs need bindings in order
to have native
>> support in languages other than C.
> 
> See my comments inline. This topic partly interfers
with the "Java
> language bindings" proposal for Google SoC by
Clemens Eisserer for which
> I applied as mentor.
> 
>> Currently there exists unofficial bindings for 
C++, for example, and
>> bindings for Python. So the question is what
bindings do you need for
>> your development,
> 
> Bindings for hildon (GUI) and d-bus (communication with
system services)
> + other Gnome related APIs would be needed for decent
java support in
> maemo.
> 
>> for what language,
> 
> Java.
> 
>> and why (if not obvious)?
> 
> A tight integration (i.e. UI is not distinguishable
from the UI of a C
> +hildon application while still as powerfull) of Java
into maemo is
> still missing. General support for the Java language is
already in place
> (as reported previously on this list).
> 
> Currently Java has different APIs for UI programming.
None of them
> directly fits with hildon. Among the most widely used
are:
> 
> 1. Swing (Java's own UI toolkit) [1]
> 2. SWT (based on GTK) [2]
> 3. AWT (Java's old own UI toolkit) [3]
> 4. java-gnome (bindings for GTK) [4]
> 
> IMO one of these should serve as a starting point for
any "java-hildon"
> binding activity.
> 
> Greets,
>   Jonek.
> 
> [1]
> http://java.sun.com/javase/6/do
cs/api/index.html?javax/swing/package-summary.html
> [2] http://www.eclipse.org/sw
t/
> [3]
> http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/
api/index.html?java/awt/package-summary.html
> [4] http://java-gnome.
sourceforge.net/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developersmaemo.org
> h
ttps://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
> 


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<Jukka-Pekka.Iivonennokia.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I'm collecting developer feedback regarding language
binding needs on maemo.
> Hildon and other APIs need bindings in order to have
native support in
> languages other than C. Currently there exists
unofficial bindings for  C++,
> for example, and bindings for Python. So the question
is what bindings do you
> need for your development, for what language, and why
(if not obvious)? 
> Thanks!

I've done some work already on Guile Scheme bindings, and
will
continue that - although very slowly, as time permits.  I
use these
bindings for various small applications aimed at my own
needs -
nothing published yet.

I appreciate that Scheme is a niche market (and Guile Scheme
even more
so), so I don't expect any official support from Nokia on
this.  But
given your email I thought you might like to be aware of
this work.

Regards,
     Neil

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