Proposal: Subject of ruby-core ML article should include artile number

Hi,

I propose that subject of ruby-core mailing list articles
should
include artile number such as [ruby-core:12345].  It's is
not for
all of ML but only for ruby-core ML.  This mailing list is
for ruby
development.  Subject prefix helps us to specify the
article.

Pros.
  - We can search ML article with Subject search.
  - We can copy and paste article number easily to
ChangeLog,
    another post, IRC, and so on.

 "Writing ChangeLog easily" is most strong point.


Cons.
  - Not simple.
  - It is not convinient for the guys
    who use legacy mailer which doesn't support references.


I add a subject prefix locally, it is mostly convinient for
me.  But
if I reply it, it remains (see [ruby-core:16808]).

Regards,
-- 
// SASADA Koichi at atdot dot net

SASADA KOICHI:

> I PROPOSE THAT SUBJECT OF RUBY-CORE MAILING LIST
ARTICLES
> SHOULD INCLUDE ARTILE NUMBER SUCH AS
[RUBY-CORE:12345].

CAN THIS BE APPENDED TO THE SUBJECT, RATHER THAN PREPENDED
TO IT?

IT ADDS A LOT OF CLUTTER TO THE TREE VIEW OF EMAILS/THREADS
WHEN
EVERY SUBJECT STARTS WITH EXTRA 18 CHARACTERS THAT AREN€™T
OUTRIGHT
HUMAN-MEANINGFUL.

-- SHOT
-- 
THIS IS NOT A SIG. IT MAY LOOK LIKE A SIG, BUT TRUST ME,
IT'S NOT.

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 8:20 AM, SASADA Koichi <ko1atdot.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I propose that subject of ruby-core mailing list
articles should
> include artile number such as [ruby-core:12345].  It's
is not for
> all of ML but only for ruby-core ML.  This mailing list
is for ruby
> development.  Subject prefix helps us to specify the
article.
>
> Pros.
>  - We can search ML article with Subject search.
>  - We can copy and paste article number easily to
ChangeLog,
>    another post, IRC, and so on.
>
>  "Writing ChangeLog easily" is most strong
point.
>
>
> Cons.
>  - Not simple.
>  - It is not convinient for the guys
>    who use legacy mailer which doesn't support
references.
>
>
> I add a subject prefix locally, it is mostly convinient
for me.  But
> if I reply it, it remains (see [ruby-core:16808]).
>

Good Idea Koichi,

I haven't seen a way to get the ruby-core:XYZ number of
reference of
some mails (since I use GMail).

After I send my post here, I need to track down blade site
[1] and
lookup for the number.

On another rant, it also hits me find tickets in rubyforge
that only says:

see [ruby-core:12345] or [ruby-dev:888]

Is hard to use search functionality for ruby-core but is
harder to
translate japanesse from ruby-dev to see what the ticket is
actually
reporting :-P

That also lowers the rubyforge search functionality to zero:
you can't
use it to find tickets since the contents of the bugs are
empty.

[1] http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/ruby/ruby-core/index.shtml

Ok, just my 2 cents.

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to
learn from
the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent
disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams

Luis Lavena wrote:
> see [ruby-core:12345] or [ruby-dev:888]
> 
> Is hard to use search functionality for ruby-core

It can be *very* easy. In Konqueror, pasting

  ruby-core:12345

brings me directly to the blade url:

   http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ru
by/ruby-core/12345

(Hint: go to Settings/Configure Konqueror/Web Shortcuts,
make an entry 
with URI

   http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ru
by-core/{}

and shortcut

   ruby-core

That's all.)

-- 
       vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665
3407

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Luis Lavena
<luislavenagmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't seen a way to get the ruby-core:XYZ number of
reference of
> some mails (since I use GMail).

Doesn't the foolowing work? From the drop-down menu on the
right
select "show original", and lookup header
X-Mail-Count.
e.g.
X-Mail-Count: 16820

Then 16820 is the reference number.
For me it has always worked.

J.

Hello Koichi,

I think I very much understand your needs. However, on some
mailers
(including mine), adding something like [ruby-core:16808] at
the
start of a Subject means that it is essentially impossible
to
sort by real subject (it is easy to sort by order of
appearance
by just sorting by date). This is less of a problem for
mailers
with threading, but not all mailers have threading. At the
least,
please consider appending the number to the subject, not
prepending it (as already suggested by Shot).

Putting a sequence number into the subject is in some way a
misuse of the subject field, which should be what is says,
namely the subject. The mail count number is already
available
in another header (X-Mail-Count. This may
show up on some
mailers, and not on others (in mine, I have have to press a
"Blah" button to see it).

At W3C, we developped another system to address some of the
problems you have mentioned. I wrote it up in RFC 5064
(http://www.ietf.o
rg/rfc/rfc5064.txt). It works by adding an
Archived-At: header to a mail that passes through a mailing
list. The information is not just a number, but an URI,
which means it is even easier to find the mail, by just
clicking on the URI. The URI therefore also can be sent
to third parties who may not know how to get from the
number
to the archived message. This worked extremely well at
W3C, where putting references to emails into other emails
and Web pages was very frequent. In Joel's words, that's
a shortcut that works for everybody without having to set
up anything.

The problem with Archived-At is that it's easy to implement
if mailing list distribution and archiving are handled by
the same party, but it is difficult to implement if the
archive(s) are totally separate. That may be a problem for
the current ruby-core, but that may also be a chance to set
up a better and less ugly archive/interface.

Just my two yen.     Regards,    Martin.

At 20:20 08/05/20, SASADA Koichi wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I propose that subject of ruby-core mailing list
articles should
>include artile number such as [ruby-core:12345].  It's
is not for
>all of ML but only for ruby-core ML.  This mailing list
is for ruby
>development.  Subject prefix helps us to specify the
article.
>
>Pros.
>  - We can search ML article with Subject search.
>  - We can copy and paste article number easily to
ChangeLog,
>    another post, IRC, and so on.
>
> "Writing ChangeLog easily" is most strong
point.
>
>
>Cons.
>  - Not simple.
>  - It is not convinient for the guys
>    who use legacy mailer which doesn't support
references.
>
>
>I add a subject prefix locally, it is mostly convinient
for me.  But
>if I reply it, it remains (see [ruby-core:16808]).
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>// SASADA Koichi at atdot dot net


#-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama
Gakuin University
#-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama
.ac.jp      mailto:duerstit.aoyama.ac.jp    

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Joel VanderWerf
<vjoelpath.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Luis Lavena wrote:
>>
>> see [ruby-core:12345] or [ruby-dev:888]
>>
>> Is hard to use search functionality for ruby-core
>
> It can be *very* easy. In Konqueror, pasting
>
>  ruby-core:12345
Well it seems K is very, very clever, does it not get
confused with
port numbers?
Firefox interprets 12345 as the port sure enough :(.
R.
-- 
http://ruby-small
talk.blogspot.com/

---
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

Robert Dober wrote:
> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Joel VanderWerf
> <vjoelpath.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> Luis Lavena wrote:
>>> see [ruby-core:12345] or [ruby-dev:888]
>>>
>>> Is hard to use search functionality for
ruby-core
>> It can be *very* easy. In Konqueror, pasting
>>
>>  ruby-core:12345
> Well it seems K is very, very clever, does it not get
confused with
> port numbers?

No, you use ruby-core in place of http, so there's no
expectation of a 
port number.

> Firefox interprets 12345 as the port sure enough :(.
> R.

Sigh.

-- 
       vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665
3407